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Topic: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces? (Read 2809 times) previous topic - next topic

How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Greetings, all. So, I was talking with Teut yesterday, and the question arose: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into all of the necessary divisions/task forces/whatever?

Even if we do a single-axis attack, we still need to coordinate which groups go to which instances, what supply transports will transport what to where, who to use for multi-crew ships and who to send in their ship, how to compose strike packages to have all the necessary SAR, C&C, SWACS, and the like, and a bunch of other stuff that I haven't even thought of yet. The organizational problems multiply if we try a duel-axis or multiple task force strategy.

So, how do we manage this? Google docs? Sign-up forms? Toss it back to organizations and divvy up the Lone Wolfs ourselves?
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #1
I still think if we can get the organizations to agree to it we should organize the task forces through ship types as it will allow us to allocate assets to specific task forces given their goal (ie mostly holding forces or attacking).

Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #2
A chain of command could be used IE: teamspeak sever

ADIMRAL AND HIGH LORDS
Sailor
and the commanders of the divisions

Then when orders are recieved they join the appropriate channel to start issuing commands

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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #3
Don't Fear I have already planned for this.... Mostly its still a wait and see just like everything else...

Mostly what I was planning to do when I took over and started the Command Room with Hike, our goal was to help organize all this mumble jumble into a working unit. Then we later branched out and Ben started to take over the Joint Operations Board that we started after me attempting to get all organizations listed down for quick references.

If I accidently deleted that post after all this board moving and conversions please let me know and I will get back to compiling it again.

But, in a Nutshell the plan was to wait until we found out more about the game mechanics and got most of all the important questions answered and then also got the listings from all organizations that was joining the fight and what they was going to do for supporting this operation. Once that was all compiled... we was to find out the general area that the organizations would be operating out from, and compile the resource listings from there.

After that the plan was to send to each organization a Suggestion of attack and support communications with the other organizations in their area. Each organization still run's itself but the primary goal was to work on communications and resource conversions between other's that were to be helping the cause in their area.

Mostly this is still VERY EARLY for this... but mostly we still have to get more questions answered first before we can do anything more on this planning stage. Don't worry it hasn't been neglected or forgotten, but we are still waiting for more in the way of the actual game being released and button downed roles from each member of the organizations in the groups.

This massive spaghetti bowl of resources will be in the works but the plan is to send out suggestions for attacks and if another group wanted to try something themselves with out the suggested plan of attack from Pitchfork Command Room then that is fine by them and we just ask what they plan to do so we don't accidently suggest something to another group that will make their plan completely moot.

Again still too early... but that was the initial plan I had worked out. We didn't discuss it much because it was still very early but it was something to be through about for later.

*edit* sorry typed this up while at school in the Networking Lab .... but mostly the start of this planning started back when Sailor asked Hike and I to be Moderator's of a certain planning stages, and then evolved once Ben and I was later upgraded to full site Moderator's.... little history note while I am waiting for these routers to finish loading.
  • Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 03:31:33 PM by JackDaniels
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #4
I've done something to this effect in an different game called Mechwarrior: Living Legends (MWLL). In Operation Viper we had some 8 units plus freelancers we had face off in a planetary conquering campaign against each other. It was pretty simple from the top. We had a Central teamspeak that freelancers and drop commanders with their units would join and sit in a lobby, and we had 3 Generals for each side. The Generals would pick units and assign freelancers to aid in the mission chosen and move them into their own channel for the drop. This worked because everyone wanted in on the action. Each drop was important, but each mission was guided by the Generals on where to. The Operation was incredibly smooth.

Ideally, this could be applied to the current structure we have for Cells. Each Cell has its capabilities and wants in the form of kinds of support to offer and the Generals should know what needs to be where. If the Units are willing, we can assign Combat Unit A to go to planet A and logistics unit B to load up near planet A for reps and refit. As for general funding and equipment shipping we can just have them bring it to a staging ground of our choosing, and be generally asynchronous for the operation.

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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #5

I've done something to this effect in an different game called Mechwarrior: Living Legends (MWLL). In Operation Viper we had some 8 units plus freelancers we had face off in a planetary conquering campaign against each other. It was pretty simple from the top. We had a Central teamspeak that freelancers and drop commanders with their units would join and sit in a lobby, and we had 3 Generals for each side. The Generals would pick units and assign freelancers to aid in the mission chosen and move them into their own channel for the drop. This worked because everyone wanted in on the action. Each drop was important, but each mission was guided by the Generals on where to. The Operation was incredibly smooth.

Ideally, this could be applied to the current structure we have for Cells. Each Cell has its capabilities and wants in the form of kinds of support to offer and the Generals should know what needs to be where. If the Units are willing, we can assign Combat Unit A to go to planet A and logistics unit B to load up near planet A for reps and refit. As for general funding and equipment shipping we can just have them bring it to a staging ground of our choosing, and be generally asynchronous for the operation.


I know this is very broad thought process... but the matter is still going to be with the number of Individual pilots and the plans we already have for dedicated Forkers going to be in for the more Detailed Org for the Structure and Command. Mostly for right now I just wanted to keep it simple, because sailor wanted to keep it simple.

Personally I could see certain aspects being good ... but we still have the fact that we don't know the Mechanics of the game and how it will work yet. While also in the fact the key to this is those that are willing to be waiting on stand-by and for how long while in a TS channel when in fact they just wish to be the Lone-wolves willing to listen in to a request for more support in a certain area....

Right now we have to many questions that need to be answered, and I honestly don't like to shoot down Theory Crafted Idea's ... But, it could just be me .... We still don't know how the game will unfold and how organized others are willing to be.

Would it be safe to say that we are open to suggestions when the time comes? Assuming we can hold off on this topic till a little later in the games development stage to allow us to effectively plan this part out?

The only reason I ask is because this portion could make or break our entire operation effort's if we get something planned out to soon to find out it will not work and we have to many people that have been away for a while not able to keep up with the plans, to note that the plans had been changed. And attempt to jump in a few hours before we start off the operation.
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #6

Would it be safe to say that we are open to suggestions when the time comes? Assuming we can hold off on this topic till a little later in the games development stage to allow us to effectively plan this part out?


That's what is going to happen. However, I like Ike: "In preparing for battle, I have always found that plans are useless but planning is indispensable." Just like for the overall strategic plan, I want to have a wide variety of plans suggested now that we update as more and more details become available, so when the time comes, we can just pick and choose the best elements.

Now, relying on organizations to direct their members sounds like it could work, especially since we have a primary and back-up contact for each org (hopefully). My concern, though, is if we adopt a geographically distributed plan (attacking on multiple axes, for example). Can organizational deployment work across multiple systems?

As for the LWs, I think I'll post in their forum asking them how they want to be organized and directed.
Edit: There was already a thread more-or-less about this. But, the LW board is kinda inactive. Vexing.
  • Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 08:54:37 AM by Ogi_the_Great
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #7
Ogi is right, getting thr lw's together is going to be very difficult unless activity picks up considerably before we launch. In the other thread i suggested using the unattached indy pilots as force multipliers and any org or unit that needs help can junp into the indy pool and request recruits. For the most part though,  it seems like the lw's will be an inconsistent commodity and no plans should be made which depend on their presence,

Having said tuat though, there are a few squadrons forming up amongst us, and as more detailed plans are formulated, i will keep the command group appraissed on the lw sar squad.

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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #8
Personally the thought is more around the idea that we will more then likely have 50% (best case scenario) of the organization's leaders willing to follow the battle plans developed here through Operation Pitchfork Website. But, even more importantly that could even develop Further to a potential 85% follow through if we was able to get more info on the organizations planned deployment area & system's of Operations. Most of this information is currently Theory based much like our own plans for attack.

Personally I was looking forward to pointing with most of the battle plans each group that say's they have no dedicated operation system, and is more inclined to follow exact details or group plans will be more then likely inclined to follow the listings and details sketched out. But, then we would have to mark them down as dedicated for that time frame of the operations.

Then you fall to the lone-wolves and Independents much like myself. Most of us would be willing to jump in and support another group requesting aid, but will mostly be tied to many other things going on that would be out of the lines of non combat to actual combat instances.

Originally the plan was .... all pirates in Nul system assault through to Orion and secured all systems through there. While the rest was to assault from Garron, Vega, and Kellog with the remaining forces meeting in Orion. After looking at the plans being focused on the good guy groups the planning stage was sorta scrapped after the fact that the number of Pirates that was joining us would more then likely not enjoy just being exclusively Zoned in Nul. Then later the plan was adapted for 1 week to account for any groups attempting to hold Oberon or Leir while other good forces in Elysium would back up any assaults into Vul Ture. Again Scrapped after 1 week of planning it out.

Then there was the plan to formulate battle plans based around the individual organizations and what ships they own or what pilots own what ever ships they have. Well that is good, except some organizations can disband or member's will melt down a ship that would have been a key role to the party that the org was planning on that they didn't own themselves.

If your dead set on doing the organization side of this, then I would honestly say the starting point would be more then likely, WHERE? are each of the organizations planning to setup base, and what systems are they more inclined to assault/assist with. But, from the current consensus is that we are more then likely going to see many organizations in the support for the push into Tiber, while my battle plans are to stay out of Tiber till we hold Virgil Vendetta and Orion with all the organizations and then make a push into Tiber.

Then there is the larger question of once we get organizations organized how will the captured assets be handled and who is willing to hold and control them and cover expenses for those assets for those all in Pitchfork?
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #9
I guess it could also never be to early for Call signs because we already got that figured from the lore, and thanks to that we could formulate from there to help configure the Organization's and divisions into call signs.

Granted last I checked ACES has 9+ divisions?
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #10

But, from the current consensus is that we are more then likely going to see many organizations in the support for the push into Tiber, while my battle plans are to stay out of Tiber till we hold Virgil Vendetta and Orion with all the organizations and then make a push into Tiber.


This is more or less what the Hammer/Anvil plan is; use a holding force to keep the Vanduul in Tiber, but do not commit to decisive action until Orion is captured, and that force can wheel and simultaneously attack Tiber from two directions. A smaller force will be needed to raid Vendetta, and secure the Nul-Caliban-Orion supply lane.

Quote
If your dead set on doing the organization side of this, then I would honestly say the starting point would be more then likely, WHERE? are each of the organizations planning to setup base, and what systems are they more inclined to assault/assist with.


Depends which plan we go with. If we go with the coup de main to Tiber, our staging areas would be in Garron, and we would have a rally point in Hell. The Hammer/Anvil plan would have staging areas in Nul and in Garron. A speed run to Orion would have staging areas in just Nul. Keep in mind, though, that organizations that take part in Pitchfork don't necessarily have to have their main base of operations be in the area; my Org (the United Space Confederation) is planning to hang out on the Eastern (Terra) side of the empire, but we'll still be fighting in Pitchfork.

Quote
Then there is the larger question of once we get organizations organized how will the captured assets be handled and who is willing to hold and control them and cover expenses for those assets for those all in Pitchfork?


This....I have no idea on.
  • Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 10:05:20 AM by Ogi_the_Great
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #11

This is more or less what the Hammer/Anvil plan is; use a holding force to keep the Vanduul in Tiber, but do not commit to decisive action until Orion is captured, and that force can wheel and simultaneously attack Tiber from two directions. A smaller force will be needed to raid Vendetta, and secure the Nul-Caliban-Orion supply lane.

Depends which plan we go with. If we go with the coup de main to Tiber, our staging areas would be in Garron, and we would have a rally point in Hell. The Hammer/Anvil plan would have staging areas in Nul and in Garron. A speed run to Orion would have staging areas in just Nul. Keep in mind, though, that organizations that take part in Pitchfork don't necessarily have to have their main base of operations be in the area; my Org (the United Space Confederation) is planning to hang out on the Eastern (Terra) side of the empire, but we'll still be fighting in Pitchfork.

This....I have no idea on.


But, now you sorta see why I am saying it would be best to put a Pin into most of the planning for right now... we already have many plans listed right now .... and many of them are filled with plenty of details, that can't be really counted on till we get the game and know the limits of the plans or what can be done till more is released.

And I understand now that there is also the fact that depending on where an organization is planning to be based out of there is the travel time and hauling needs for your organization to rent a hangar space closer to the front lines for the operation if you all plan to bring everything to the party and get setup before Pitchfork starts it's work. Because the distance travel will be a Doosy for those on the other side of the verse. Then there is the important question of how much the rental fee's will be and how we can balance them out once we get everyone setup close to the event time.

And assuming your entire force will be heading out from Terra is going to leave the bigger question of how much of your force will you be able to transport with you to position near the vanduul fleet? and then that further raises the questions to how much flight time will this take? Then also how much fuel will be spent during this long flight to the front lines? and etc.

I understand we want to get something planned, but there isn't much we can do right now with out a few vague details laid out for right now... like Call signs and where each organization is willing to be stationed for the event and how much of their resources will they be bringing to the party. If anything those on the east side of the verse could even be assisting in the Logistic Supply demands and collect munitions on your side of the verse to haul closer to the fight for everyone else?
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #12

I understand we want to get something planned, but there isn't much we can do right now with out a few vague details laid out for right now... like Call signs and where each organization is willing to be stationed for the event and how much of their resources will they be bringing to the party.


Well, that depends on the eyes of the observer. If Sailor67 gets what he hope - 100,000 people - then there are huge administration tasks and we can't wait until the last month to start planning. But I agree we must get some answers from CIG first. It's imperative we get those as soon as possible.

As it is now, planning really goes in all directions. Many ideas, but no consensus. I'm afraid we end up with only "Let's go and smack them!" and little more.

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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #13

But I agree we must get some answers from CIG first. It's imperative we get those as soon as possible.


Do we start finding our subscribers ASAP and asking them to submit a 10FTC question?

Quote
I'm afraid we end up with only "Let's go and smack them!" and little more.


That's what I'm afraid of too. That way lies lots of Pitchforky debris.
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #14

Do we start finding our subscribers ASAP and asking them to submit a 10FTC question?


Subscriber here, I'd be willing to field any questions you want me to pass on since I don't really have anything worth asking myself (at least that I think stands a chance at getting answered). I know there's a fair number of other subscribers around as well.

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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #15

Subscriber here, I'd be willing to field any questions you want me to pass on since I don't really have anything worth asking myself (at least that I think stands a chance at getting answered). I know there's a fair number of other subscribers around as well.


Again... IT may be best to hold off and wait till we see more of the game before we start going off the rocker with the idea's and questions just yet. The general note of right now still needs to be programed into the game or at least tested in the DFM yet.

Heck right now we have Sailor as a subscriber now too.. so even though this is his current baby we still have more important questions that still need to be answered still before we can even draft up this plan.

https://operationpitchfork.com/forums/index.php?topic=695.0 <<<< The Questions
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #16
I think we should be loyal and do as our leaders advise. We can bring our questions forward for discussion, then our leaders decide what to do at the end.

Why? Because someone has to take the blame if this goes south! Haha. ;)

Just kidding.

I'll add my questions to the question thread now.


Edit: spelling.
  • Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 03:17:37 PM by Viking

Master Bacon Maker

Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #17
You're right, Viking. Add the questions to the questions thread, and we can organize our subscribers to submit questions for 10FTC there.
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #18
Wirth, you played MWLL also? Nice.

Anyway, I think we need to do a chain of command through TeamSpeak that coordinates with each instance's C&C officers. As far as assigning lone wolves to instances/groups, I think that should be done through the game's chat by the C&C officer after getting orders from the chain of command.

Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #19
Tossing my 2 credits in on this. In the past for operations of this size on planet side I've used the following type set up:



Theater level > Local command > Squadron > Fighters

So the way it works is you'd use a VOIP system and have each of the fighters in their own room with their  squadron leader. The squadron leader would also be in another room on another hot key connected to the other squadron leaders. From there Local command would be the capital ships who are also listening to the Squadron channels as well as the Theater level. Theater level would be only the command ships.

From there this can be branched out that at the Theater and local command level there would be another channel for resupply to coordinate fuel, missiles, and ammo to be brought to staging areas for the combat vessels.

Thoughts?

Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #20
make sure i got this.

An idris flying in support of lets say 2 fighter wings and a bomber group would be local command right? The idris commander there for would be in chat with the theater command and squadron command.
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Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #21
Yep Cromwell, sounds right.

Forgot to mention, for crewed ships they'd be using their own com channel, which I'd assume the game would have set up, otherwise there would need to be a room for each ships crew.
  • Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 10:54:29 AM by GryphonOsiris

Re: How do we organize the Pitchfork Armada into the necessary task forces?
Reply #22
Thinking about it a bit, if we have distinct task forces (like TF HAMMER or ANVIL in my Hammer/Anvil plan), and if organization communication is as comprehensive as we hope it is, we could organize large formations that way.
United Space Confederation Envoy to Operation Pitchfork
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