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Topic: The Current Plan, So Far... (Read 7426 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #25
Even only assuming that 20% of the organization roster will be online simultaneously at any given time, I can speak from my experience as a WoW Vanilla 40-slot instance raider: TS or Mumble comms will NOT work.

At best, you'll get get the leadership in one server and then they'll relay orders to their own groups. Problem is, there's SO many organizations and independents that that's not even a feasible option either.

Either we create some SERIOUS structure and hierarchy (if only just for communication protocols) or we lay out a base plan and let people reach the general objectives the best they can.
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.

  • TrItOn
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Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #26
Our co-founder has some input on that but, he can't seem to get onto this site atm...he says with setup you can run up to 1,500 on teamspeak but it takes specific setup? I'll get him in here somehow..
שם טוב ולא להיבחר מאשר עושר גדול, ואוהב לטובת ולא כסף וזהב. kJV Proverbs 22:1

Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #27
You don't get it...

It's not about the size of the server, it's about keeping comms clear.

Ever tried to lead a raid when there's 40 people in the channel? There's always background chatter, noise, people AFK, people who didn't hear, people who feel they should contribute, etc, etc.

To some point, you could reduce this by muting everyone who's considered "non-essential" but then you'll have people arguing that they ARE or that someone else ISN'T and that's going to lead to a bunch of drama.

EVEN THEN, with over 2000 people, there's bound to be like 50 to 100 people considered "essentials", which still is a huge number to cope with. OPPF won't be like a raid boss where everyone can go into the internet and learn about the "boss" before hand and have a general idea of what to do. People are going to fly in blind, with only the idea of "bringing home the bacon" and trying to survive.

As I said, it's going to take a HUGE deal of organization and hierarchy if you want to get effective comms working. Either that, or just have the big-wigs broadcast general operation directions through a browser radio. That way, those who want a semblance of organization can tune in and listen, and those who rather do their own thing, can still know what's going on here and there.
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.

  • BlizKriegBob
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Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #28
I'm with the Cmdr. Deathcall on this one,
without a command structure the only feasable solution would be to state objectives and let everyone go at it on their own. This might work for some general objectives, yet it would be a rather ineffective use of our limited resources.
The orgs in OPPF might be able to handle the tasks with their internal structure, especially the mercenary and military orgs, since they will probably have an already established command hirarchy.
As for the lone wolfs (I don't know the ratio of org members to lone wolfs in OPPF) just running blindly into e.g. Tiber would be a waste of their fighting power.
Even among the orgs it would be more effective to have some people who dispatch goals to them, so we don't have all our Idrises (which are mostly org members as far as I know) in one system, while another front might need some of them.

In the end we all want to achieve our goal but let's face it, we want to have fun doing so (actually the fun is the most important part), so it will boil down to the question of how many forkers want to work in a hierarchic structure and how many would have more fun by flying into the orion systems and shoot everything that resembles a vanduul.

... I'm in favour of a command structure though.

  • BlizKriegBob
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Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #29
My proposal for a command structure with the mode of communication between the different levels would look like this.

This would use VoIP only for command levels that require fast response times, while the levels that don't require those can work with chat systems, preferably a chat system that let's you organize in different channels.
...
just my idea.

  • JackDaniels
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Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #30

Do we have an idea about how comms work. Things like Tactical Frequency, Radio 1 (Squadron Units), Radio 2 (Base, ATC, AIRBOSS.) Incorporating military comm discipline into TeamSpeak. Have we figured out whether we are going to use TeamSpeak vs. Mumble in conjunction with SC VoiP?


To answer this question directly. Papa_Rob and I was working up an idea for a Pitchfork Internet Radio station to help broadcast current fleet movements and combat music for the time of the event. It wasn't offical yet but was drafted as an idea to help with those that wanted to RP a little. Because the ingame design is to allow us to send messages figured that this will be the primary means to keep groups together. A single Teamspeak to use and manage is just to resource heavy for the number of folks we will have for the event thus making it hard to justify putting together the funds for a 2,000 slot server for a few months.

Good Question but as for the communication's we also through of making use of twitter feeds to also make it easier but this is still yet to be determined or worked out till we get more functions of the game in place for us to test what we can do and how we can use them.
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  • Nathual
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Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #31
Ladies and Gentlemen,

First let me introduce myself. I am currently the Co-Founder of the Spectre Organization in Star Citizen who will be providing supplies and defenses starting in the Nul System for the operation. In the Past I have lead/Founded some extremely large organization across dozens of different games from the Nightmare Squadron in Freespace 2 to the Nightmare Battalion in Planetside 2. I have also Co-Founded some major alliance across these games along the way, most recently the Matterson Vanu Alliance which runs around 1000 people on comms every week and consists of many thousands more.

It would be easy to copy the setup for the teamspeak server... The only hindrance is that we would need the server on one hell of a connection preferably in a colo on a T1 line and somebody is gonna have to get a commercial license with teamspeak. We can also ask RSI if they would do it xD

The Setup is quite easy. The command channel is where all those on the top echelon of command will sit. This would include a person for every fleet ( One per a solar system) and the operation commander would sit. Below that are separate channels for the fleets, with sub channel for each flight wing. The commander has a button that is set to broadcast server wide from the command channel and each fleet commander has a button to broadcast to each fleet channel. One presses the button and says Clear Channel, Clear Channel and relays the orders. This way not only can flight wings talk to each other as much as they need but they are not disturbing any other channels and the commanders can broadcast orders to any and all who need it on the fly. As long as everyone maintain some level of comms discipline only reporting targets and warnings letting wing leaders  give orders, the comms should remain fairly clear even in the sub channels. If need be a liaison channel can be put in play so that those who wish to use there own systems can get reports on the alliance. We can also use the same feature to allow certain people in lower channels to report to command.

Also as far as strategy goes. We can't plan alot of things right now because of all the unknowns. We can however get a basic operation strategy in place and do recon in the months ahead to nail down details.

First since our main targets are Tiber and Caliban so we should concentrate the majority of our forces in Nul and Garron with smaller fleets on the other 3 target system more for recon and defense rather than attack. I say this because if we split our force up to much we will be putting ourselves at a disadvantage when we attack the enemy, because we are gonna need numbers to win the fights since they have size. We want the fights to be quick and decisive with over whelming firepower. That is the only way we are going to be able to keep our forces intact for the next battle.

Second Supply Fleets should be assemble with a escort of at least 2 idris and a few wings of fighters. The should be a main supply fleet that maintains a position a system behind the front lines giving resupply, rearm, repair, refuel, and defense to those retreating while sending the idris as mentioned in the topic. Escorting targets to and from the supply fleet as needed to maintain a strong and valid supply lines. After all any student of history know that wars are won based upon there supply lines.

Third before any attack is made on any system a force recon needs to be made so we don't fly head first into a Vanduul forces. This recon needs to ID every major enemy ship in the sector and find the comms ships as that should be our primary target. Once the Vanduul lose comms it should be a crap shoot as reinforcement for them won't be called in.

Obliviously this is a rough plan that need to be detailed out, but it is a foundation to start from.

Nathual
Co-Founder Spectre
  • Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 04:19:46 PM by Nathual
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  • BlizKriegBob
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Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #32
First of I think you plan sounds rather good Nathual.


The should be a main supply fleet that maintains a position a system behind the front lines giving resupply, rearm, repair, refuel, and defense to those retreating while sending the idris as mentioned in the topic.


I had a discussion with TrItOn about the range of our ships and the gist of it was, that if we want to deploy dogfighters like the hornet we will need fuel ships to jump in behind our main forces since a fighter like the hornet might be capable of equipping a jump drive but will probably only be able to carry enough fuel for a single jump. So we can get them into the system without a carrier ship (since we will most probably don't have enough carrier capacity in our fleet to carry a substential force in our idrises) but without a refuel the fighters won't be able to leave the system. Also if the assault goes fubar they'd be trapped.

As you said supply lines are the veins of any military operation, so whenever we try to take a system we should set priority to securing the jump points and fuel sources.

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Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #33
Also, per posts about using VOIP in game. Playing Planet Side 2 we've had issues with the VOIP failing during charity events and other ops due to patches or other odd issues. Thus, the reason for a command structure which does not base any of this communication structure on any one communication mode entirely. *(Maybe the Vanduul will not be using Electronic Warfare which will interfere with the VOIP but, we also have some peeps which plan on being friendly with  the Vanduul. I hate getting side-swiped!)
Plans for securing Anti-Matter supplies for our Jump engines are in progress we will make sure we have all grades of fuel available! I'm working on that aspect now. I will also speak to "Convoy"...maybe, they'll hookup with us on this aspect?
שם טוב ולא להיבחר מאשר עושר גדול, ואוהב לטובת ולא כסף וזהב. kJV Proverbs 22:1

Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #34
I'll also start putting out some contracts within the Brown Coats leading up to Pitchfork for fuel and munition supplies. Not all of us are joining the great crusade, but more than enough will be looking for hauling jobs.

Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #35
The main problem with communications is that OPPF is conceived as a very loosely organized effort. People may commit to the operation, but not to the strategy. Organizations that have pledged they support will probably have their own command structure and communication methods.

If I understand Sailor's intentions right, his aim isn't to put on an admiral hat and direct everyone. Quite the contrary in fact, he'll just lay down the basics and hope people do their best.

If we are to keep this concept of a loosely organized effort, I believe the best way to keep everyone up to date with events and information would be to have a dedicated team of people who jump from TS to TS (or Vent or Mumble or whatever) and/or twitter feeds and/or any other comm media used by the players and report to one source like a web-radio or a forum or some other convenient medium.

IE: Reporter jumps into the TS of Guild X. Asks if there are any major news. He gathers the data and filters relevant information (like if a kingship was sighted, or if a player is known to fire on friendlies, or how hard the resistance is in that sector, etc.) and relays it to the broadcast station before jumping onto another server. The operator then broadcasts the information over the radio to everyone.

With this manner of communication, we filter out irrelevant data (like who's got the best kill streak) and concentrate relevant information from multiple instances onto one source that anyone participating in the operation can tune in to.

Always consider that a lot of people, loners, big and small orgs, will rather hang out in TS with their own rather than be in this huge server where they have to follow comm protocols that they aren't used to (this is to say, where they can't fool around and have fun as usual).
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.

  • Nathual
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Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #36
Hello All!

Thanks BlizKriegBob, and I totally agree! Sorry I should have detailed that part of the supply chain in my explanation...Opps! I think we still need the MFAP to be roaming resupply points on the front lines, but the main supply fleet sitting a system behind the front lines is for gathering of supplies were mostly the MFAP would go to get fixed up and resupplied, but it would also be there for anyone that is in full retreat as a stationary position of safety and resupply. Sit it in front of the returning Jump Point and catch Vanduul as they come through the point chasing someone. Hence why it is going to need a couple of Idris for the firing line. All the while stockpiling stuff to supply the MFAP quickly so they can return to duty.

The main problem with having your supply base in the system is that if it gets destroyed the whole operation will soon follow. So I suggest this 2 fold supply line plan so that not only do we have supply wings going into the system, but we also have a supply base that is safe and surrounded by UEE forces close by.

Yes Triton is correct in-game VOIP has failed before and it better to be safe than sorry and have multiple backups for comms. Without communications we fail. So I would also implement the radio station as well, but use it for more of a broadcast on the battles so anyone can follow the fight to a certain extent. But we shouldn't be releasing any sensitive information on the radio as it could tell our Vanduul sympathizers where our supply fleets are for instants.

Heya Commander Deathcall! The Matherson Vanu Alliance was also a very loose organization of outfits so the method of operation with a little adjustment would fit our needs perfectly. So don't get me wrong, I am not trying to imply that we go military with it and take all the fun out of it. That wouldn't work anyways because quite frankly we aren't an army. We are a large group of citizens that want to have some fun and kick some Vanduul butt! The Operation commander and the Fleet Commander responsibility is really to just help people organize at the highest level so everyone knows what it going on and if there are high priority targets. It is up to the organizations how they will be going about any specific targets.

Basically Wing Leaders/Organization leader in the sub channels would have a whisper button to there fleet leader so they can report things. Then the Fleet leader lets the fleet know what is going on. Then organizations would volunteer for missions. The command channel is for the fleets to interact and broadcast things armada wide that all need to know about such as. Huge Vanduul force coming through whatever sector requesting reinforcements. Or The meet up point is over here for such and such operation.

The goal is to allow for an overall organization, while leaving the choices of how to act up to the individual guild. Basically we supply them with a list of targets and opportunity and they choice how to go about it, if to go about it at all. All the while allow for a chain of command for the passing of information in an organized and efficient manner.

Also for those that want to use there own system the liaison channel is always there. After all it is going to be more efficient for them to have a liaison there reporting to the individual organization rather than us trying to have people jumping around on servers trying to get information.

Lastly when I was talking about comms disciple it is really for the people using the broadcast and whisper so that the average pilot can communicate in there sub channels as much as they want only clearing comms when information comes down from the top.

Hey GryphonOsiris,

Excellent! There is a example of why we need a supply base. It gonna be easier for those random hauler to drop stuff off at the main supply fleet rather than try to chase a MFAP through the war zone.
  • Last Edit: December 16, 2014, 06:14:21 PM by Nathual
Honor Lets One Find The Path
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Skill Lets One Attain The Path

  • JackDaniels
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Re: The Current Plan, So Far...
Reply #37
Notice to everyone that has been posting plans and Idea's in the Current Plan so far .... Expect it to be pruned very soon. Any idea's or topic's you started in the thread will be lost . As previously stated this thread is subject to change but till we see more from the game come to life this thread will be under going some very serious pruning to help keep the important details current and vital for those that need the quick and to the point details.

Expect this thread to loose a page before next week.
If you don't want to see your topic or idea lost please locate the proper thread or current topic that warrants your post. If you can't find it with the search features please start it as a new topic so it can acquire some more momentum.
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