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Topic: Galactic Guide: Tiber (Read 2429 times) previous topic - next topic

Galactic Guide: Tiber
So, CIG released the Galactic Guide for Tiber here: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13614-Galactic-Guide-Tiber.

For reference, here is some information on Nul: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/spectrum-dispatch/13551-Observist-Dark-Olympus-Ashana-Nul

So. What changes our perceptions for Pitchfork? With this new (to non-subscribers) information on Tiber, how does this change operational plans?
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Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #1
Yes this information became available a bit ago on the Jump Point Magazine, we discussed it at the time.

I for one had to scratch my entire strategy. They made huge changes to the system. One thing hasn't changed (for me) though... Unless we deal with Tiber in one way or another, we won't hold Orion for long.

PD: There IS one very interesting piece of data that I missed the first time I read it... "Given the obvious advantages of Caliban, most of these forces were stationed there rather than in Tiber."
  • Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 09:46:13 PM by Commander Deathcall
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Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #2
Yeah, it changes things a bit, but we really need to wait until we get more detailed info on the other systems like Caliban, Virgil, Vanguard etc.

Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #3

Yes this information became available a bit ago on the Jump Point Magazine, we discussed it at the time.


We did, yeah, but I do recall a lot of people asking "huh?" Hence why I created this thread.

Quote
One thing hasn't changed (for me) though... Unless we deal with Tiber in one way or another, we won't hold Orion for long.


Agreed. It would be quite embarrassing if we rocket up the Nul-Caliban-Orion axis, had our huge armada, and next week, when we didn't have said huge armada, Victor Von Vandy sleepwalks into the system and recaptures it.

Quote
PD: There IS one very interesting piece of data that I missed the first time I read it... "Given the obvious advantages of Caliban, most of these forces were stationed there rather than in Tiber."


I saw that too, and it makes me think that Caliban has some nice infrastructure that we could use to stage the attack on Orion (or a counterattack, if necessary).
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Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #4
I think our best move is to wait until the PU goes up in beta form before we start planning. Until we can get actual eyes on these systems, CIG can change them however they wish to.

Plus, once we have a concrete idea of what assets and perils a given system presents beyond (potentially) a one or two sentence blurb, we will know where we can safely amass forces and supplies, where to avoid (for whatever reason), and may even find out the UEE is making another push on Tiber that we could ride along with

Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #5
Allthough it is just speculation at this point, the way Tiber is discribed with harvesters and warcamps on the planet or in other words a Vanduul spawning point. And at worst, given the fact that CIG can fairly simply 'cheat' (gamplaywise) this might be an endless supply.

We could make the precense of Vanduul in Tiber a data analysis priority and have some early combat operations specifically to see if the number of Vanduul significantly changes and/or how fast they are replenished

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Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #6
Fair points Marcus, it should be interesting if they want to be mean to us....

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Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #7
I know people have concerns about CIG cheating with spawn points, but I really don't see them doing that after all of the work they've put into making it so that players can have an effect on the Verse. Especially after setting the Vanduul up like this and voicing support for OPPF with the MVP and their other comments. The more closely I follow the lore, the more I'm seeing bread crumbs being dropped for us in it. They may be imagined, but some of them are awfully coincidental if they are.

Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #8
A guild member of ours, who is subscribed, talked about this. Do you think it's possible then to try and catch the Vanduul in a two-pronged assault? I mean one group flanks them by heading straight to Orion via a longer route, while a second force in coordination perhaps with a PMC (or UEE taskforce in the region), attacks Tiber.

The result would be that the Vanduul would have to split their forces between us, leveling the field and making their firepower less overwhelming. I dunno I'm just throwing out suggestions.

Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #9

I know people have concerns about CIG cheating with spawn points, but I really don't see them doing that after all of the work they've put into making it so that players can have an effect on the Verse. Especially after setting the Vanduul up like this and voicing support for OPPF with the MVP and their other comments. The more closely I follow the lore, the more I'm seeing bread crumbs being dropped for us in it. They may be imagined, but some of them are awfully coincidental if they are.


Well it is something to consider, again just speculation and them cheating is basically the worst case scenario... my current thoughts on this are as follows

If we consider that Tiber 2 has 1. Raw materials 2. Harvesters to process those materials and 3. Vanduul presence in the form of warcamps. Then the unknowns are currently A. The actual quantities of variables 1, 2 and 3 and B. The planetside ability to construct operational combat units from those variables.

The Vanduul being assessed a nomadic race, i'm going to assume that B is accomplished by either the harvesters themselves, the harvester carriers, or another support vessel that the Vanduul have already brought to Tiber 2, and thus that they have production capabilities (though again speculation).

Going back to the variables, 1. the raw materials are potentially endless. We don't know how many wrecks are around but they have a whole planet to strip resources. My current suspicion is that we will not be able to do something about this.

2. The number of harvesters (and possibly construction vessels) will determine how many hardware will be created in how much time.  these assets might be present (as in actual models and such) or they might simply be a statistic. Our ability to stop them will Initially be depending on landing locations, the real question will therefore be -> can we actually land near to their processing and construction facilities and take them out. (My hope is yes, my suspicion is not all of them). If there are harvesters in space, harvesting wreckage and asteroids we can with high probability take them out and cut any vanduul supply lines to the planet.

3. Vanduul warcamps... another great unknown, we don't know how fast vanduul reproduce nor how many are on the planet. If cig is fair then there is a limited set amount of vanduul on the planet to get pilots and crew for their war machine and would if we destroy enough fighters eventually might have a need to fly in additional crew to pilot out new ships thus creating a new supply line to disrupt however we don't actually know how many vanduul are actually on the planet and that is something cig can exploit.

Thus the way it is set up certainly allows for nigh unlimited spawning if cig so wishes. Which brings me to the cig support: don't mix up support for the idea with support for our success they are in part the dungeon master tasked with keeping us entertained and therefore the Vanduul will never stop. However that does not mean that they cannot be driven back or contained. Orion (if it lacks vanduul production facilities) for example might be taken, Tiber I might just be contained.

At least that is my current guess, i started the data analysis thread to prove me wrong ;)




Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #10
There's one simple thing that limits just how many Vanduul can strive down in Tiber...

Food.

But then again that's only true if the Vanduul are subjected to the same rules of supply and demand that the UEE is. Which is a question that hasn't been answered yet.
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Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #11

There's one simple thing that limits just how many Vanduul can strive down in Tiber...

Food.

But then again that's only true if the Vanduul are subjected to the same rules of supply and demand that the UEE is. Which is a question that hasn't been answered yet.


That is an interesting suggestion, we can look into Vanduul foodproduction and investigate their supply lines. Would be hilarious if cut off food and we conquer Tiber not by a flashy military strike, but because all Vanduul have eaten each other  :o

Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #12
There's a level of realism that hasn't been confirmed for Starcitizen yet. Sure, it has been talked about during some fiction and developer comments, but in all truth, it hasn't been confirmed on a broad scale.

Just how deep does the supply line work?

Bottom line, some things simply do not make sense unless the Vanduul chain of supply is borderline unreal.

Food is just one example. They said there's no "replicator" (from Star Trek) technology, meaning that each meal has to go through the entire production chain before it gets on your dinner table. Explain to me how a nomadic race with no known core worlds or agricultural skills (that we know off) provides for its people.

If you ever played Civilization you know that food = more population. With a limited food supply, how is it that the Vanduul seem to have enough soldiers to match a galaxy spanning civilization like the UEE?

What about fuel? Tiber has no gas giants. Unless their ships are running on something entirely different, then they must get their fuel from somewhere else.

Ships? Spare parts? Ammo? Water?

What about training areas for their pilots? Sure, it's a warrior society and sure you could say that they send their young out to test themselves as soon as they can handle the rudder... But how does a society with limited breeding capabilities (due to the aforementioned reasons) replace those dead pilots and hardware? Let me tell you, sending out poorly trained pilots didn't work for Japan during WW2...

Bottom line... in order for CIG not to "cheat" there's a huge deal of things to explain.
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Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #13
Having been in favor of starting at Tiber for some time, I'd also point out that even if we don't take the system, destroying some of those Mothership Harvesters would be a huge help to the UEE.  If the lore is correct, those harvesters actually make incursions deeper into the UEE possible and more damaging.  Of course, that assumes we can even damage them, which would be another thing that would require scouting.

Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #14

A guild member of ours, who is subscribed, talked about this. Do you think it's possible then to try and catch the Vanduul in a two-pronged assault? I mean one group flanks them by heading straight to Orion via a longer route, while a second force in coordination perhaps with a PMC (or UEE taskforce in the region), attacks Tiber.

The result would be that the Vanduul would have to split their forces between us, leveling the field and making their firepower less overwhelming. I dunno I'm just throwing out suggestions.


I can think of at least two two-axis plans. The first is Xeriar's Proposal, the second is the Hammer/Anvil plan. The chief difference between the two is that Xeriar's Proposal is a classic two-pronged assault, whereas the Hammer/Anvil plan has a holding attack that transitions to a deliberate attack once the second axis (HAMMER) secures Orion and attacks via the Orion-Tiber jump point.
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Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #15
Based on CIG's description of the system, we have another Omega-4 relay, but with no Normandy. Attacking Tiber is nothing short of insanity, even all I could think of as a possible reduction method would be mass suicidal antimatter bombing to destroy their planets and therefore their infrastructure, it seems that Tiber is the most important world that we are aware of, so it does have to be removed. A two pronged assault would probably fail as well, as they would probably get diced to pieces by a force that has already resisted a government military incursion. We really need to decide what we want here, because if by some miracle we manage to take Tiber, I don't think we will have the momentum left to take the fight to Orion.

Another thing to note is that in this latest jump point it gives small hints that Caliban may be under UEE control, correct me if it has been stated otherwise recently from an official source. But if this is correct, then we may not have as much of an issue in the Caliban route as we had planned.

Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #16

We really need to decide what we want here, because if by some miracle we manage to take Tiber, I don't think we will have the momentum left to take the fight to Orion.


Agreed. That is why the Hammer/Anvil plan's main attack on Tiber is set for after TF HAMMER has secured Orion. Once we have Orion, Tiber will preferably need to be secured as well; however, given the strength of the Vanduul in Tiber, I would be fine with such an attrition of the Vanduul forces that they cannot threaten Orion for some time.

Quote
Another thing to note is that in this latest jump point it gives small hints that Caliban may be under UEE control, correct me if it has been stated otherwise recently from an official source. But if this is correct, then we may not have as much of an issue in the Caliban route as we had planned.


That means that any thrust up the Nul-Caliban-Orion axis would go a great deal swifter, true. But, Tiber still needs to be neutralized or attritted, or else a week after we're gone, the Vanduul retake Orion.
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Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #17
Or we could "commandeer" the planet killer the UEE tested in the (Ellis?) system, and just bust Tiber 2 open (and 1, while we're at it, just in case). That is, if you view with skepticism the UEE's claim that the planet in (Ellis?) blew up naturally.

Re: Galactic Guide: Tiber
Reply #18

That means that any thrust up the Nul-Caliban-Orion axis would go a great deal swifter, true. But, Tiber still needs to be neutralized or attritted, or else a week after we're gone, the Vanduul retake Orion.

Well, I don't know, one would assume that the UEE wouldn't make the same mistake twice and would move a fleet up to defend, and I am hoping an influx of (this time) well prepared colonials will provide a decent defense. And perhaps we could use this to our advantage, if the Vanduul did attack Orion again (I don't think they would be able to take the planet again if the above statements were true, as the first time Vanduul met little resistance, and they probably wouldn't throw all of the Tiber fleet at Orion), they possibly could expose or weaken Tiber to a secondary assault from anyone else who wanted to continue work against the Vanduul, at least to deal some damage to them.