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Topic: Know your enemy ship types (Read 3589 times) previous topic - next topic

  • tosk
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Know your enemy ship types
So CIG just posted a picture of all the different Vanduul ship types.  Gotta say, some of them are a LOT bigger than I'd thought they'd be.

  • Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 09:24:35 PM by tosk

Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #1
Interesting, a dedicated comms ship

Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #2
Everybody is freaking out about how big some of the Vandy ships are.

Am I the only one who doesn't care, and has confidence in the Retaliator and Gladiator drivers to toast some big slabs of bacon?
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #3

Everybody is freaking out about how big some of the Vandy ships are.

Am I the only one who doesn't care, and has confidence in the Retaliator and Gladiator drivers to toast some big slabs of bacon?

^ This.

I've this imagination in my mind - a handful of Retaliators make it beyond the wall of Scythes. Let's say, 5 Talis... and they fire 40-50 torpedoes. Maybe a dozend of them hit the Kingship and tear it apart.

  • Andy_H
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #4
How many Tali's do we have? Three hundred plus? Pffft. Bigger size just means a bigger backside to aim at. Even if one couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, anyone could bullseye these suckers. Not that the ride in wouldn't be an adrenaline rush, but how do you miss a target that is nearly a mile long?

Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #5
I was under the impression that a Vanduul carrier was slightly smaller than a Bengal, but this doesn't change anything. Besides, I've fought bigger ships in flight sims before. That said, I assume CR is going to make the big ships in this game VERY challenging. But size is really not as much of a factor as people make it out to be... unless you're trying to capture one. :-P

Personally, I'd bet Gladiators will be better for something like this than Retaliators. More torpedoes *per person,* most likely. And fewer systems dedicated to stuff other than strike. But somehow, Retaliators outsold Gladiators by a lot despite being a hundred dollars more. :-P Not trying to put down the Retaliator, it looks like it's going to be awesome!
  • Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 06:43:28 PM by Knightcrawler

  • TEUTknight
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #6
I am not considered, from what I read on lore the vanduul are barbaric and should be somewhat like tribes, and therefore occasionally fight each other, shouldn't have a large amount of kingships then, not to mention it gives us (hopefully) the opportunity to have these tribes fight each other while we strike, and the chance to see a very large explosion :D

Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #7
Personally, I'd bet Gladiators will be better for something like this than Retaliators. More torpedoes *per person,* most likely. And fewer systems dedicated to stuff other than strike. But somehow, Retaliators outsold Gladiators by a lot despite being a hundred dollars more. :-P Not trying to put down the Retaliator, it looks like it's going to be awesome!

Here I disagree. I own a Tali and a Glad, so I've no preference.

But in regard of the know artworks and specs of both the Tali and the Glad, I estimate a battle value of at least 3 Glads vs. 1 Tali. This would also be the 'magic' formula of balancing PvP. If the torpedoes can be directed via remote control by a PC/NPC - and the Tali looks like it is equipped with 2 stations for that purpose - than I'd say the ratio might be near 4:1.

However, this depends on the battlefield. I guess, a Glad needs more escorts than the 'Flying Fortress' Tali. But despite that, it'll be more useful to bring down enemy heavy fighters, bombers and cargo vessels.

In addition, in OPPF Glads will have an impressive advantage:

They fit inside an Idris and can be reloaded with torpedoes, maybe even repaired. Talis must return to base to reload - a long way home. So despite their lower numbers, I guess we'll have as much Glads in active service as Talis.

Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #8
You raise an excellent point about the rearm loop. I'm thinking that, doctrinally, we may use Gladiators against their pickets and smaller cap-ships, since they can re-arm a lot quicker, and thus burn through more of them. The Retaliators, in the meantime, are survivable enough to bore through the Vanduul fleet (perhaps through gaps created by Gladiator sorties), and can take out larger cap-ships.

This, though, depends heavily on being able to use Idrii to rearm our birds. We only have 49 of them, last time I checked, so that's a pretty small amount of ships we can resupply at any one time.
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #9
We Steal A Bengal!

  • Andy_H
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #10
I think somewhere in the lore it is stated that the Tali can't land on anything smaller than a Bengal.

Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #11

You raise an excellent point about the rearm loop. I'm thinking that, doctrinally, we may use Gladiators against their pickets and smaller cap-ships, since they can re-arm a lot quicker, and thus burn through more of them. The Retaliators, in the meantime, are survivable enough to bore through the Vanduul fleet (perhaps through gaps created by Gladiator sorties), and can take out larger cap-ships.

In addition to that, if just the Tali can remote control torpedoes, then they're not only a strategic weapon, but also some kind of 'capship snipers'.

I assume that larger capships like the Kingship are heavily armored. We'll probably need two torpedoes on the same area to inflict significant damage. Good, if you can remote control them.

Smaller capships might not have this thick armor and a single torpedo will breach the hull.

This, though, depends heavily on being able to use Idrii to rearm our birds. We only have 49 of them, last time I checked, so that's a pretty small amount of ships we can resupply at any one time.

Well, this raises an interesting point. This could make the work of 'uncool' jobs like for the crew on hangar decks far more attractive.

The fleet relies on you, how fast can you reload them with ammo, how fast can you refuel them? Are you the fastest pit-stop crew on the fleet? There're many fighter pilots and bomber crews on the fleet, but only a couple of you. Just saying - this is personal, they'll remember your name.

:D

Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #12

This could make the work of 'uncool' jobs like for the crew on hangar decks far more attractive.

The fleet relies on you, how fast can you reload them with ammo, how fast can you refuel them? Are you the fastest pit-stop crew on the fleet? There're many fighter pilots and bomber crews on the fleet, but only a couple of you. Just saying - this is personal, they'll remember your name.

:D


Like.
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #14
*Self-deleted*

  • MattK101
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #15
I look forward to storming the Com-Con with a boarding party, and securing the Pegasus NavC... wait, wrong movie.

On a serious note, other than the Carrier (and the names, I think they need some work.  Not a fan of "Kingship") they're all tracking with what I expected. We haven't seen UEE heavies for comparison yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Bengal is tweaked slightly now that the Vanduul appear to have been finalized for Sq 42.

Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #16
(C&P from similar post on RSI GD forum)

Ya know, I'm thinking that the "Lightfall" and "Hunter" might be able to be taken out by a ship ripple-firing dumbfire missiles. DFs traditionally trade seeking capability for a larger warhead, and CR games have allowed the smaller ships to be taken out by determined fighter attacks. So, this means that Pitchfork torpedo bombers can focus on cruisers and above. Better way to use our ships.
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  • Nodrokov
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #17
If you're feeling intimidated, just listen to march of cambreadth again, and right as it ends, scream "DEATH TO VANDUUL SCUM" and suddenly, that fleet will look a whole lot wimpier.

  • Bzerker01
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #18

Interesting, a dedicated comms ship


Good to know for 'head off the snake' tactics which we should probably use.

Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #19
I suspect that Gladiators will actually make a strong line strikecraft as well as competent bombers. The Avenger can mount IR missiles in the class 3 mount, and the Gladiator has 6 class 3 mounts. Depending on how effective missiles are the Glad might out fight a hornet. With the versatility of being able to mount torpedo when we face larger cap ships, Glads might very well be the backbone of the invasion.

Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #20
I just worry that a torpedo might take up multiple Class 3 mounts. Multiple consecutive mounts, even.
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #21
Perhaps. More likely, torpedoes will come in a variety of sizes. Anyway, the Gladiator is designed as a torpedo "dive bomber," so I don't think that's an issue.

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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #22
Very interesting info...

I'm wondering how boarding the larger ships is going to work... Will it be feasible to have dropships swooping in through any open hangar and dumping marines into the middle of everyone?

I can't wait for any level of PU launch...
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #23
Sorry about necroing this thread, but I have some thoughts that nobody else here has had.
The design philosophy of Vanduul ships seems to put an emphasis on speed and firepower over hull armour.
We've already had very thorough and close looks at the Scythe, where we can see that actual hull plating is sparse and many if not most internal parts are physically bared from many angles.
I see this being true for the larger ships as well. Notice the strips of Hull plating with wide gaps in between them.
The main problem I foresee when fighting the Vanduul fleet will be surviving long enough to bring down the cap-ships' shields.
If the AI scythes in Vanduul Swarm are anything to go by, their shields can generally take more punishment than ours before failing.
Once they do fail however, I think any decently targeted barrage will have at least 40% of their warheads hitting something the Vanduul would rather prefer they didn't.
That being said, the most critical parts of their cap-ships will probably be hidden deep within the hull. Things like the reactor cores probably will not be reachable without actually boarding the ships, but leaving them wrecked, stranded and harmless shouldn't prove too complicated.

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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #24
Cordovan, my worry would be we don't know how thick the "thin" sections and "thick" sections are, just where the more visibly reinforced areas are.

The Japanese A6M Zero was designed for blistering speed and maneuverability at all cost, yet that didn't mean HIJMS Yamato had a glass jaw too (quite the opposite, it finally took no less than five full and three light carrier groups unleashing a literal hailstorm of explosives from almost NINE HUNDRED aircraft to put her down, along with the cruiser Yahagi and four out of their seven escort destroyers). I would not rule out a culture that prizes speed and maneuverability in their lights going the opposite with hitting power and durability in their heavies... especially if as the intel is to be believed they're a nomadic civilization where their ships are also population-centers.
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #25
Anyone else noticed that the Destroyer Type is the only major ship that doesn't seem to have a vertebral spine on top? Wonder if this means anything or if it's just art.

Also, when thinking vanduul fleet composition, I always have in mind the Wraiths from Stargate Atlantis, a similarly "split race". It's unlikely that every clan has a kingship (even Earth is only protected by a handful of Bengal Carriers).

Another thing to keep in mind is that it's very likely Vanduul covet the frontier systems because that's where most of the loot (from pillaging at least) comes from. It's also likely that the constant conflict with the humans along these same systems makes it sort of a "place of honor" to have, and that the elite of their race is situated here (as they are the ones that see the most combat).

If we were to work under these assumptions, you could argue that the "brunt" of the Vanduul forces (or at least the strongest clans) might very well be at or nearby our area of operations. This means that the initial fight will be harder, but once that their lines are broken, it should be easier to penetrate into Vanduul Territory.
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Re: Know your enemy ship types
Reply #26
Or, if we can infiltrate past the line, maybe some of us could wreak havoc in their rear-areas. Example is the concept behind the paradrops on D-Day.

On the other hand, we also have to account for another possibility. At Gettysburg, Lee assumed because he had met heavy resistance at McClellan's flanks that that strength came at the expense of the middle of the line, thus sending Pickett charging up Little Round Top... straight into the meatgrinder of Sickles's Brigade in the Devil's Den and Chamberlain's bayonet counter-charge down the hill.

This MAY be an opportunity... or another meatgrinder. Considerable ISR (Intel, Surveillance & Recon) activity would be suggested for a better picture of the situation before proceeding. Such Snoop-n-Scoot might be another prime role for our friends with captured Scythes...
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