Skip to main content You are either not logged in or not registered with our community. Click here to register.

WikiFullscreen ChatVoice Chat (Discord)Org PageF.A.Q.

Topic: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal (Read 2374 times) previous topic - next topic

AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Obviously this will be pending actual intel we can gather but keeping in tune with most of the Forkers probably being pugs who'll just charge in I'm all for a 2-pronged attack. Keep it simple and straight forward, we don't need to MacGyver this thing :D

Nul > Caliban > Orion

Should without a doubt be our main line of attack whether we have a single push or multiple.

For the second prong, I would either go with

Garron > Tiber > Orion
or
Vega > Virgil > Tiber > Orion

With a preference for the Garron route. The simpler this is, the easier it'll be to herd pugs about.

As for fleet organsiation, I like the idea of forming pug/lone wolf groups around organised guild squadrons. Guild fleet commanders should report up the line to Sailor and his commanders but be in control of their individual battles to reduce the stress on high command (and of course, so they can have a bit of fun without constantly looking at a map, worrying about strategy). Obviously, by 'in control' I mean of their own guilds and any of the pugs/LW's who want to actively follow orders, but with the herd mentality of people (as in, people will always follow authoritive looking groups) that should be catalyst enough to get any remaining pilots to follow along even without active direction.
Redback Company: First ones in, last ones out.

Org Page: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/AUSREDBACK

  • JackDaniels
  • [*][*][*]
  • Enrolled
  • Former - Shout Box Lurker & Forum - Admin
Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #1
Thank you for the input Baconstraps... Oddly enough this was already the first plans we had. But, yes as the game gets further along and we are able to run some of the games features and mechanics through the ringer we will be able to see the first half of this plan running as a general guide.

Till we know more I would say that, you may have forgotten to account for instancing... or you may not have but I like how you kept it vague... But, as it goes time will tell once the game is getting closer to being fleshed out.

Feel free to modify and edit your plans as you see fit but as for now... if it was a general move to and fight our way though with out securing systems this is the plan... for now.
2j0kx3s.png" width="490

Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #2
Nah, didn't forget about instancing just laying out the rough framework I think we should work from. Most of these details simply can't be filled in until we have more info
Redback Company: First ones in, last ones out.

Org Page: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/AUSREDBACK

  • JackDaniels
  • [*][*][*]
  • Enrolled
  • Former - Shout Box Lurker & Forum - Admin
Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #3
O yes agreed, that we still need to get more information from CIG before we can plan anything further.

But, one of the comments Sailor brought up one evening was the fact that we will have different organizations that already have potential for fighting with one another so still shoving every one into the exact same area could be problematic but still help reach the full force effectiveness that could be used from this Militia.

If anything I would advise a possible list of questions that you feel should be asked in order to better fill our your proposal. The frame work is good I will give you that, but I am kinda set on using boarder sections as a favored locations.

Don't take this the wrong way others can still be in favor for this plan and that will also help find out who would like to be where and follow the optioned proposal once Sailor Signs off on them that are favored by our community.

As for the Questions, what Questions from CIG do you need answered so you can fill your plan out more?
2j0kx3s.png" width="490

Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #4
We'd need to (at least, I just woke up so some things have probably slipped my mind) know:

How big instances will be
How multiple instances will work with each other
How C&C works around multiple instances (if it's even possible)
How communications will work (do we use a TS/mumble? Will in game comms be good/work over instances?)
How attacks on systems will work - do we need to take multiple strategic points or do we just go in and kill everything?


Just off the top of my head, anyway. A lot of it will probably come from the various modules coming up, so I'm not too concerned about it just now though.
Redback Company: First ones in, last ones out.

Org Page: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/AUSREDBACK

Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #5
We also don't know if you can select which instance you enter as reinforcements, or if you can move from one instance to another.

Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #6
Everyone seems to like the idea of a two-pronged attack, I understand, it's a classic military maneuver, but nobody is thinking past the jump-points. Yes, it's all nice and dandy to say "lets attack them in two fronts! Guderian for the win!" but this is space, and space is BIG. Yes, you can throw two fleets at two different systems, but then what? What planets, asteroids, moons or whatever do you go for?

This idea needs a lot more elaboration, even if we don't know the specifications for each system, we can't allow ourselves to be this vague.
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.

  • JackDaniels
  • [*][*][*]
  • Enrolled
  • Former - Shout Box Lurker & Forum - Admin
Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #7

Everyone seems to like the idea of a two-pronged attack, I understand, it's a classic military maneuver, but nobody is thinking past the jump-points. Yes, it's all nice and dandy to say "lets attack them in two fronts! Guderian for the win!" but this is space, and space is BIG. Yes, you can throw two fleets at two different systems, but then what? What planets, asteroids, moons or whatever do you go for?

This idea needs a lot more elaboration, even if we don't know the specifications for each system, we can't allow ourselves to be this vague.


so what you mean to say is you want us to each state the words "Secure anything of value along the way..." because right now the Vague-ness of this is because we can't scout anything out right now. And do you realized you some what made your post confusing at the fact of saying don't keep it vague for details when in fact all we have are vague facts on the systems. This is still very early and as the time will continue we will finally have a mapped out system with assets that we can say need to be secured or not. We can't assign an assault and capture plan on a Munitions storage to find out we are in fact securing a Cake Factory of some sorts...

sorry thought it needed to be pointed out. But, I would agree that we will need to figure out more detailed plans but we can't do it right now because we don't have all the details on all the system.
2j0kx3s.png" width="490

Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #8
I know I sound like a negative nancy, trust me, its kinda of my intention. The best way to perfect plans is to first flesh out everything doubtful about them. Even if I have to be the guy who just goes "no, that won't work" all the time, I truly believe my criticism might help improve the plan in the end.

In any case, while you are right that we are working with vague concepts here, there's something that you have to remember. All war machines require mostly the same, so we might not know where (for example) a refueling station is, but we can safely assume there is one. Same deal with ammunition. We might not know where the Vanduul make their ammo, but they surely do. If it's in system, then we find it and target it, if its out of system, then we intercept the supply convoys.

Same things go for us. We don't know where we'll be able to refuel, but we know we'll HAVE to refuel. Meaning that we know some of our forces will have to be on fuel duty, and those forces will require protection when they traverse through unsecured space, and then we'll have to have designated refuel areas with protection forces of their own (because ships would be extremely vulnerable during refueling I'm assuming), and so on and so on.

Speculative thinking will give us a template which we can adapt to reality after we gather intel. Granted, it's not the optimal way to go, but it's as good as it gets right now. How far into detail we take our speculations will dictate how many modifications "on the go" we have to perform.
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.

Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #9
It's cool, I totally understand where Deathcall is coming from.

Trust me, it's not lack of consideration of these details that makes me be vague, it's a simple lack of info. Put plainly: We just don't know anything about how systems are going to work or what they contain as yet, that's what the initial beta scouting will be used for.

What I'm going for here is a rough idea of how we want to play the strategic scenario out before working out the tactical manouvering.

Also, part of my reasoning for the 2 pronged attack will be our sheer size. Given the rate of signups on the O:P thread on the RSI site, I'm expecting a good 10k players to turn up - which will be way too many ships for a single front. If we go through Tiber, obviously most of our forces will need to go via that route based on what we know of it already but there's no reason to think the Vanduul won't pull forces away to defend other fronts at this point.
Redback Company: First ones in, last ones out.

Org Page: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/AUSREDBACK

  • Benjamin the Rogue
  • [*][*][*]
  • Staff
Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #10
This is another reason I had two starting points in mine as well. There's going to be a metric ton of us by the time this thing goes down. I don't know if we could get through one Jump Point in any reasonable speed if there's only one. Hitting a place out from two or so directions might be out of necessity to get everyone in system fast enough.

Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #11
I'm with Deathcall. A two-pronged attack may be a classic military strategem, but keep in mind, we're going to be outnumbered by the Vanduul no matter how many people we have. Furthermore, even if we have 10k in our fleet, we still need to provide for defense of our rear areas/supply lines. Seeing as people signed up to blow stuff up, and not to patrol, having enough people to secure our rear areas may be a problem.
United Space Confederation Envoy to Operation Pitchfork
Envoy, USC
XO, USC Defense Force Training Command
Member, USC Interstellar Commerce
Member, USC Expeditionary Corps
Member, USC Department of Aerospace Engineering

Aurora LX (Traveller's Tales)
Anvil F7C-M (Ares' Gauntlet)
Anvil Carrack (Grey-Eyed Goddess)
Aegis Vanguard (Hero for Hire)
Anvil Crucible (Rustoff)

Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #12
I'm not so sure about being outnumbered. There's a logistical limit to how many ships the Vanduul can have without some kind of infrastructure. I realized this a while ago while pondering about their supply lines. The devs even make it a point to say that their forces are usually not at a 100% combat readiness (think X12).

Now, when it comes to the classic two-pronged attack... as Ogi said, it's a classic maneuver yes. However, people proposing it may not be considering we are fighting in space and while divided in several different instances. The whole concept of envelopment will be hard to apply to this conditions.

A spearhead attack would be easier on logistics and organization, that's for sure.

About getting stuck at jump-points because of our sheer numbers, I trust instancing will solve that.
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.

Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #13
We'll probably be outnumbered in system, but not in instances which is key here. With the DFM and all of beta to get our skills up, we should (theoretically) not be too outmatched by the Vanduul by the time this rolls around.

Also, I think you guys might be misunderstanding the reasoning behind a two pronged attack..

It's got nothing to do with envelopment - Although if that happens, it'll be a pleasant side effect. With how CR has been describing the mechanics of the PU, my bet is that the Vanduul will respond to seperate raids on their borders. Given we already know they'll be massing en force for the sacking on earth (and with Rob having said they'll be ready for us). THe idea of the seperate pushes is to try and divide their forces a bit.

If we can draw their main forces away from Orion with a raid on Tiber, the Orion attack will have more chance of succeeding. The second prong is primarily a diversion, not a flank.
Redback Company: First ones in, last ones out.

Org Page: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/AUSREDBACK

Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #14
Ok, having the second prong be a diversion/a fixing force changes things drastically. Its a lot easier to put pressure on a front than it is to try to take it from the enemy.

The only problem we'd have to worry about is our disorganized rabble taking the diversion/fixing fighting so seriously it becomes a proper front of its own accord.
United Space Confederation Envoy to Operation Pitchfork
Envoy, USC
XO, USC Defense Force Training Command
Member, USC Interstellar Commerce
Member, USC Expeditionary Corps
Member, USC Department of Aerospace Engineering

Aurora LX (Traveller's Tales)
Anvil F7C-M (Ares' Gauntlet)
Anvil Carrack (Grey-Eyed Goddess)
Aegis Vanguard (Hero for Hire)
Anvil Crucible (Rustoff)

  • Ratu
  • [*][*][*]
  • Enrolled
Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #15
Provided we still have sufficient forces for the main front, who cares if it becomes another front? Heck their success will help us even more because they'll be drawing more forces away from us and will potentially be able to set up some kind of base of operations for supplies or repair and refit or suchlike.

  • Benjamin the Rogue
  • [*][*][*]
  • Staff
Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #16

Ok, having the second prong be a diversion/a fixing force changes things drastically. Its a lot easier to put pressure on a front than it is to try to take it from the enemy.

The only problem we'd have to worry about is our disorganized rabble taking the diversion/fixing fighting so seriously it becomes a proper front of its own accord.


That might turn into an opportunity itself! Or if not that, at least really exciting.

  • Hstaphath
  • [*][*][*]
  • Enrolled
  • Gold Wing Squadron - Prime Minister
Re: AdmlBaconStraps' Proposal
Reply #17
The discussions we have been having in Goldwing are pretty much in line with this proposal.  As a "white hat" squadron, some of our members aren't comfortable massing in Nul (or even Garron for that matter) due to the distraction of needing to shoot pirates in the face that might turn out to be Forkers.

We would opt for being part of the prong that pushes through Virgil and Tiber to get to Orion.  Undoubtedly jumping off from Vega to do so.