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Topic: General Logistics Discussion - Katamari (Read 4503 times) previous topic - next topic

General Logistics Discussion - Katamari
As with many threads that have touched upon this, logistics are vital to the success of the Operation. One aspect of this is resupplying ships, short on ammo, fuel and whatnot.

I can't remember if a thread was made about this already but I propose the formation, of a Company, which deals with resupplying and if need be, light skirmishing/harassment of enemy supply trains (Not clear, as of yet of how Vanduul resupply or if each ship is self sufficient-Just putting it here now).

This is how it would roughly pan out.

The 'Support' Company would be sorted into these categories:

Supply Wing: Starfarers/ Banu Merchantmen/ Aurora LX/ Freelance etc But primarily Starfarers and major resupply ships like the Merchantman.

-This wing under a commander/captain etc, would further be arranged into squadrons to deploy at key areas of the front, to resupply and equipment pending, repair and rearm the PF Vanguard forces. The Squadron would have its own escort to ward off the occasional attack (with the Vanguard providing additional protection but as soon as the job is done, the squadron pulls out to a rendezvous point, ready to be called again to action.

-Bases of Operation would be set up, to allow the most efficient and shortest ways to where the supply wing is most needed.

-The Captain of the Company would need a ship capable of command and control features like a Connie.

Escort and Skirmishing Wing:

-Consisting of Light Ships like Auroras (Any version but preferably LXs and LNs) any ships that can be spared from the front (Hornets, 325a, Idris Ms and other dogfighting ships strictly prioritized to fight with vanguard, unless in dire emergencies, which threaten the Logistical Company). Avengers, 315p and a couple of Freelancers/Connies to beef out this wing.

-Primary Task: Protect the Starfarers, Merchantmen and key ships from Vanduul/traitorous elements as they refuel, resupply, repair and rearm the fighters of Operation Pitchfork. One of these ships, as stated, would be C and C for the Captain of the Company. Would deploy alongside Supply Wing Squadrons and garrison at forward bases.

-Secondary Task: Skirmishing, Light Scouting/Short-range Exploration/Harassment and Flanking enemy forces. Useful for Harassing enemy supply line, intercepting and delaying Vanduul reinforcements as well as manoeuvring past enemy coloums/formations to deal critical blows or to serve as a first wave to land on a Planet.

Of course Captain would conduct as he/she sees fit, the Company's own logistics and can delegate certain duties to others, such as having two subordinates to help manage both supply and Skirmish/Escort wing.

All in all the Starfarers and other Key supply ships, would gather together in one Company so as to keep organisation clear and make it easier to see where and when to resupply, thereby sending the right amount of ships so as to minimise damage to the Supply Train. With the Escort wing, it'd also be able to take on other objectives to further help the cause.
  • Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 05:16:33 PM by mediaflare

  • Ratu
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Re: Logisitics Preparation-Fuel, Ammo and other key Goods
Reply #1
Interesting concept, I believe there are already a number of units set up to do just this. The DSA will be likely be involved in these sorts of operations as that's what our ships are catered to at the moment.

However, I think you will struggle to get a bunch of random players together to do this without forming a formal unit.
Most free agents don't like being ordered around.

Re: Logisitics Preparation-Fuel, Ammo and other key Goods
Reply #2
Yea I'd agree that this sort of task would be best done by per-existing guilds who have an understanding of the benefits and requirements for this role, but I like the idea as well.

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Re: Logisitics Preparation-Fuel, Ammo and other key Goods
Reply #3
Skirmishing and harassment of Vanduul supply chains will need to be kept completely separate from this, logistically speaking.

I think the main thing we need to worry about now is procurement of supplies and preventing people from abusing access to those supplies by absconding them for personal gain.

On the first point, there's probably going to be some kind of Vanduul supply caches we'll be able to capture and utilise.

Re: Logisitics Preparation-Fuel, Ammo and other key Goods
Reply #4

Interesting concept, I believe there are already a number of units set up to do just this. The DSA will be likely be involved in these sorts of operations as that's what our ships are catered to at the moment.

However, I think you will struggle to get a bunch of random players together to do this without forming a formal unit.
Most free agents don't like being ordered around.


Hmm yes, I'm aware that Guilds will most likely be able to handle their own supplies and refueling. However that's the point, they'd do so largely for their own 'Troops' as it were, with second priority given to everyone else, no matter where they are or whose closer in distance to them. That was one reason to form a cohesive unit, so as to ensure that many people as possible (Squadron size depending), Guild Member or lone wolf otherwise, gets the support and resupply they need in the heat of battle.

And yes this would have to be a 'Formal' unit, that was part of the proposal.

If this turns out not to be the case, and guilds would be more than willing to share out resources and refuel anyone, then the Supply wing of this proposal can be dropped and instead be focused on a Self-Sufficient Skirmish and Light Exploration Unit, as mentioned above.

  • Benjamin the Rogue
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Re: Logisitics Preparation-Fuel, Ammo and other key Goods
Reply #5
The Convoy has already said it is willing to take up a lot of the logistical slack themselves. We've got a fair number of people who are willing to volunteer Starfarers as well, and other transports. We just have to provide a semi-organized structure for them to utilize in distributing the right supplies to the right people.

We might have to actually wait until Beta starts to see how to do that. But working on a framework for the ideas of how to approach that is always good, even if we don't have all of the data.

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Re: Logisitics Preparation-Fuel, Ammo and other key Goods
Reply #6
The DSA will deliver to whoever pays us. In this case we're mostly being paid in vacon so that's all good.

Re: Logisitics Preparation-Fuel, Ammo and other key Goods
Reply #7

The Convoy has already said it is willing to take up a lot of the logistical slack themselves. We've got a fair number of people who are willing to volunteer Starfarers as well, and other transports. We just have to provide a semi-organized structure for them to utilize in distributing the right supplies to the right people.

We might have to actually wait until Beta starts to see how to do that. But working on a framework for the ideas of how to approach that is always good, even if we don't have all of the data.


I'm part of the Convoy myself, though it's more of a Trade Union than an actual Guild.

Understandable. We haven't got the beta yet but hey I agree, Strong minds discuss ideas :D.

Re: Logisitics Preparation-Fuel, Ammo and other key Goods
Reply #8
As we flesh out our strategy more and more and people start picking up their own roles, you might get a lot of volunteers who'd like to help with the logistics efforts.

But yes, most big groups will most likely procure for themselves or find someone who'll run their fuel and ammo on their own.

Perhaps the biggest qualm with a shared logistics effort will be funding and resource allotment.
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Logistic Cost Guide Line Discussion
Reply #9
I don't think this has been discussed or decided yet, and if we intend to fight the Vanduul for longer than 1hr we will need to have a reliable process for which the front lines can receive ammo and fuel.
And NO! We cannot just expect the people doing the boring supply runs to pay for our fuel and ammo out of their own pockets.

Here is what I imagine would be an ideal supply line in our operation:
A Starfarer buys 75 tons of refined fuel at Garron @ 100credit per ton(7500cred), travels to Cell 10(LAMP), Vanguard Division's Carrier at Tiber and sells to the quartermaster 75tons @ 110 creds per ton (8250), then the quartermaster sells to those being refueled at @ 115 per ton(8625).

I would suggest for every star system farther away from the source supplies that the cost of the supplies be increased 5-10%.

So in the above example...Garron is 1 jump from Tiber...thus +10%.

Now you may notice the quartermaster added 5%(only a guideline), I think the Organizations that bring their carrier to the war effort should have the chance to cover their costs(and risks), and the promise of making more than their costs may bring more organizations to our cause.

Example 2( 3 jumps from nearest source of armor piercing rounds)
A Constellation buys 30 tons of armor piercing rounds at Vega @ 1000credit per ton(30000cred), travels to Cell 1(ACES), Vanguard Division's Carrier at Orion and sells to the quartermaster 30tons @ 1300 creds per ton (39000), then the quartermaster sells to those being rearmed at @ 1350 per ton(40500).

Now I'm imagining you're thinking "Wow they're going to get filthy rich off of us!", but making their way across 3 systems 2 of which are unsafe, and then the return trip to get more supplies....That will take a lot of time and fuel. This rate might be much less they could get elsewhere, and elsewhere they could get a back load back to the starting system for double the profit.
So thus I believe that 10% is the minimum rate, and that 15%per system would be more fair.

I think the above rates need debate and fine tuning with beta release.
And even if this thread comes to a decision on the rate, it can only ever be a guide line, nothing more.

I foresee the need for a quartermaster that represents the Organization that controls each carrier, who collects an organization's levy off of the sale of ammo and fuel.(at a rate they decide..since it will be their own members buying from them, most likely. They may decide to have no levy.)

And in closing, I'd like to note that with the amount of large organizations joining our cause...Carriers are not just likely...they are a logistical NECESSITY.

  • Benjamin the Rogue
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Re: Logistic Cost Guide Line Discussion
Reply #10
I believe this is a completely fair system for all parties involved. We're going to have to figure out quartermaster positions though.

Re: Logistic Cost Guide Line Discussion
Reply #11
It's pretty fair, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate here (in the favor of selling at-cost):

1) What about newer players that can't afford supplies over the long duration? Philanthropy from some of us will only go so far.
2) We're already including the merchants in on the phat loot and/or salvage, aren't we? And the phat loot/salvage is the only way anyone else is making money.
3) What about the combat forces? Do they charge the supply fleet for escort and safety?

Just playing devil's advocate; I'm pretty undecided on this so far.

Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #12
Okay, so I've been hovering in and out of the command room and we need to organize a logistics thread to see who is willing to be the driving force behind the assault. We will need haulers for fuel (Starfarers would be ideal)
repair stations ( maybe a idris for emergency repairs) and we need cargo ships willing to haul ammo and people.
All these will need escorts, so if you have finished out in the field or want some relaxed work why not come and escort a few ships to the front line?

SHIPS-

We don't know what ships are most effective yet, but we can have two main classes of ships: Fast and  nimble for getting cargo or people to the frontlines fast, or slow but heavy trawlers. Fast ships will be the main choice of most people but until we how much cargo actually is we just can't tell which class is best.


Escorts-
We will need plenty of escorts and as some ships are defended, some lack the firepower to hold of a vanduul patrol.


Checkpoints and Staging - 
We will have to set up in the system beforehand and check where we can get our local supplies (i.e: where is the closest planet that has 100 heat seeker missiles)


Roster : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhSQO7iVuozXdEZnZlFfT0EySWFnTlFWcW13U2NmNkE#gid=0

If your org will have a seperate Logisitical wing list it and any lone wolves could apply to join.

Thanks
Dan
  • Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 09:11:16 AM by danibo160

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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #13
Well the Joint Task Force has it's own Logistics Fleet that we will be putting into operation for the Mission. So i can agree with this.

Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #14
Thanks!

-Dan

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Re: Logistic Cost Guide Line Discussion
Reply #15
Traditionally, there wouldn't be a charge on supplies to the actual combat ship owners so I'm not in favour. I'd imagine fuel would be cheap enough to harvest that anyone following along with the fleet just to scam us out of a tank of gas would actually find it easier to go and collect it themselves.

Munitions are a different story. What if we only allowed resupplies in areas experiencing combat or directly after combat? We could also limit resupplies to once or twice per ship, and setup a Google doc for people to collate names of everyone who's "used" their once-only resupply?

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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #16
yeah Dan that's still a long way's off right now. But that was the point of this Command Room Forum. We still currently don't have enough info to fully flush out enough of the plans and seeing as how this is more then likely not going to be happening till next year we are a little bit of a long ways off right now.

We still have to wait to find out the effectiveness of certain ships for certain roles and what others are going to fully dedicate to the cause, when it gets closer. Now if your still wanting to assist in the command room functions then it would be best to read through some of the plans that have already been posted back when we founded the webpage and this forum topic.

But, as for right now we still have to wait till we get more info before getting a little more certain on details.
2j0kx3s.png" width="490

  • Benjamin the Rogue
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #17
Think of this thread as the muster grounds for people interested in providing logistical support to the cause. They can come here and talk about the latest developments in that field of expertise, and begin to form plans as they get the information permitting that.

If someone could help danibo160 out with a sign up list like what the Recon/Scout thread has, and the Special Forces thread, that'd be really helpful.

Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #18
  • Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 01:28:01 PM by danibo160

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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #19
I'll be up for it. I'll bring my Banu MM for bulk cargo capacity and some decent firepower.

  • Benjamin the Rogue
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #20

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhSQO7iVuozXdEZnZlFfT0EySWFnTlFWcW13U2NmNkE#gid=0

Basic sheet to get a rough idea of numbers.


You're going to have to make it so other people can edit the document as well. Right now all we can do is view it.

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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #21

You're going to have to make it so other people can edit the document as well. Right now all we can do is view it.


Agreed..

Or you could pull all entries from the current Roster and Assets listing for any one that puts themselves down for Logistics.
2j0kx3s.png" width="490

Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #22
https://operationpitchfork.com/forums/index.php?topic=692.0

This topic I just posted has a lot to do with logistics, if you're interested.

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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #23
my regiment although we only have 7 who have purchased star citizen we have 3 constellations that we will gladly use for logistics

Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #24

my regiment although we only have 7 who have purchased star citizen we have 3 constellations that we will gladly use for logistics


Thats enough for us! Thanks!

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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #25
Even if you could only offer 1 Aurora for the Logistics effort, it would still be helpful. No effort is too small!

Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #26
It will be interesting to see if we can construct supply dumps, or even space stations in orbit. Still, it probably would not be a bad thing if organizations created Rear Echelon Fuel, Supply, and Ammunition Dumps (REFSADs). Vega, Centauri, and Croshaw all look like good places for safe dumps. Nul and Garron, being a jump away from the Vanduul, would be a place for the brave to establish FOBs.
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #27

It will be interesting to see if we can construct supply dumps, or even space stations in orbit. Still, it probably would not be a bad thing if organizations created Rear Echelon Fuel, Supply, and Ammunition Dumps (REFSADs). Vega, Centauri, and Croshaw all look like good places for safe dumps. Nul and Garron, being a jump away from the Vanduul, would be a place for the brave to establish FOBs.


Absolutely agree.
While I am only a Lone Wolf, I will have a hangar in Crosshawk and Garron (as a Lone Wolf, I am not comfortable with a base in Nul) and start stockpiling stuff there from the start of beta.

Edited for typo
  • Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 07:15:10 AM by Hawkeye
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #28
Wait, haven't they said that there will be multiple wipes over the course of the beta? I wonder how much time between the final wipe and the end of the beta CIG will give us.....that will also impact how much time we have to develop Nul.
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #29
Yes, I expect there to be some wipes (and a lot more roll-backs) through the beta, but we will never know when the _last_ wipe has been made (I expect the wipes to be made to fix stuff in the PU that went horribly wrong and you donĀ“t know when such a thing will happen in advance), so I will start stockpiling from day 1, just to be on the save side :)
"Tell the King: After the battle my head is at his disposal, during the battle he may allow me to use it!
GenLt. Seydlitz to Frederik the Great after disobeying an order to attack

R. Hoenig, Germany

  • Benjamin the Rogue
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #30
I'm gonna need someone to craft another Logistics thread and take over managing the first post updates and Google doc. danibo160 was making a good effort of it, but he's just got too much on his plate in real life right now. So I'm looking for another volunteer to take over. This thread will be archived and closed.

Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #31
Had an idea about bring supplies it, at least initially. For the main push what could happen is all the ships that can carry cargo (Aurora's, Freelancers, Connies, ect) could lug in cargo modules for the first wave. They would then drop their cargo at a set staging area for sector resupply where the repair ships would be waiting for ammo and refueling duties. The resupply ships would come in fully loaded and once their stocks are used up they can recover the cargo modules.

Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #32
Could def work. The only issues I see in creating what is essentially a supply dump in space is how long the containers will persist, and how difficult it will be to transfer supplies outside of a station or a planet.
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Combat Logistics Units
Reply #33
Combat Logistics

Because the Logistics Units are the most important Units (believe or not) for every Army - I decide to take a spartan warrior (BattleMonster) with the pose of Atlas holding up the whole Operation Pitchfork. And since we are going to have a hell of a BBQ the Unit will provide us the Charcoal.



Cheers
Crow
  • Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 05:19:10 PM by Kon Ellin

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Re: Combat Logistics Units
Reply #34
Interesting... I was half expecting to see "Providing Essentials" ....

But it's an interesting design.
2j0kx3s.png" width="490

  • Benjamin the Rogue
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #35
Damn nabbit, i forgot to close this thread, since danibo160 isn't managing it anymore.

Can I get someone to open a Logistics and Supplies Thread who is willing to manage the first post and the Google sign up document? I'll migrate the comments here to that new thread if I can get someone to volunteer for that.

Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #36
We actually might want to wait, until we have an idea of how many separate major formations/maneuver units/units of action/whatever we have to support with our logistical assets.
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #37
  • Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 01:26:29 PM by danibo160

  • Benjamin the Rogue
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #38
Ok, danibo160. Can you edit the first post to include the Google link, so that people don't have to go looking for it? The first post will also need a little more refinement. But I'm glad to see you're back.

Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #39
Done ben.

  • Benjamin the Rogue
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #40
Thanks, danibo160. I appreciate the work.

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Re: Logistic Cost Guide Line Discussion
Reply #41
Fuel or Gas planets are way over by the far side of the star map in UEE space by the Xi'An edge of space. At least that is what the map says for now. That is way more then 5 or 6 systems away. So this fuel supply run will not be a cheap run by a starfarer. This war is like exploration you need to pay or build up supplies to do it. Its not going to be free, this is a economy game.
  • Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 10:04:42 PM by ajax
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #42
Supply areas if unable to drop cargo modules in space and they stay floating for a long periods of time. Then we may need to establish the far out skirts planets to be a supply & repair base of operations. Once we take over some other Vanduul planets closer. Then setup supply, repair areas & drop points. Then OPPF supply & repair operations could slowly move the operations closer by planet hopping closer to the front, behind the battlefronts.
  • Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 11:04:02 PM by ajax
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Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #43
Hello everyone,

I know of a Japanese corporation that specializes in transportation, I think they would be a great addition to the corp.  They would be able to get their name out, which would help them be profitable in the long run and we would get more haulers. 

But since they are not native English speakers, I was hoping to find someone that could give me an assist.  They probably could use someone who knows both English and Japanese well, some speak english well... others not so much.  But most importantly it would go a long way in diplomacy that someone cared enough to speak to them in their own language.

I also hope to get in contact with a few other hauler leaders... it they have other haulers to talk to it would go a long way to making them feel not like outsiders. 

I am going to talk with them a week from the time of this post about it, and I am hoping to see what I can get from the crowd to increase the success rate. 

  • Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 03:19:42 PM by Ringsead

  • Benjamin the Rogue
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Re: Logistic Cost Guide Line Discussion
Reply #44
I've been on the edge of my seat waiting to find out about how the economy functions for a while now. I really think that's going to make or break our logistics corps when we find out.

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Re: Logistic Cost Guide Line Discussion
Reply #45
I think a standard pitchfork markup should be agreed on for all pilots.

Cost + 10% for suppliers
Quartermasters should only be making 2% since they are trading the volume of all the goods per carrier etc.
Cost would be the cost of fuel to the fleet from starting location + Cost of goods.
War profiteering and gouging kind of defeats the purpose of this operation IMHO.




Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #46

Hello everyone,

I know of a Japanese corporation that specializes in transportation, I think they would be a great addition to the corp.  They would be able to get their name out, which would help them be profitable in the long run and we would get more haulers. 

But since they are not native English speakers, I was hoping to find someone that could give me an assist.  They probably could use someone who knows both English and Japanese well, some speak english well... others not so much.  But most importantly it would go a long way in diplomacy that someone cared enough to speak to them in their own language.

I also hope to get in contact with a few other hauler leaders... it they have other haulers to talk to it would go a long way to making them feel not like outsiders. 

I am going to talk with them a week from the time of this post about it, and I am hoping to see what I can get from the crowd to increase the success rate.


Im sure we could find someone who speaks japanese between our ranks

Re: Logistics and Supplies Thread
Reply #47
Im not able to edit the spreadsheet. But i would have a merchantman to haule some ppl or weapons around...

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Hands Free NPC Simplified Logistics While Online
Reply #48
It is confirmed that if your are online you can hire an NPC to run cargo(Maby more.) independently. So yes you can sit in a bar while shipping supplies to an OPPF Base or FOB. This simplifies and speeds up logistics by needing less human manpower in exchange for credits.

Reference at 19:48 :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkjfyVDhzNs&feature=youtu.be


  • mediaflare
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Re: General Logistics Discussion - Katamari
Reply #49
This was moved here from another section for ease. Bumping so you know it's still here :P