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Topic: Ogi's proposal (Read 2349 times) previous topic - next topic

Ogi's proposal
Greetings, all. My review of the existing proposals leads me to believe that there is too much emphasis on having too many moving parts. I propose that the main advance move on the Nul-Caliban-Orion axis. Doing so provides us a combination of the fewest systems to protect, the fewest jump lanes for Vanduul counterattacks can come from, and the simplest axis of advance for what will probably be an undisciplined horde of fighter jocks.

Nul may be a good staging area, since there are three friendly systems in one-jump range, and and eight in two-jump range. While there may be no inhabited planets, I'm sure that we could set up a FOB (Forward Operating Base) of sorts, especially if we can build space stations.

Granted, we would want to protect our flanks by raiding Vanguard and Tiber, but raiding is a far cry from occupation. The objective of raiding Vanguard and Tiber would be to degrade Vanduul logistical functions, in order to neutralize the systems. If you want numbers, figure 80% of our strength goes at Caliban/Orion (we do need to secure Caliban, as well as Orion in order to achieve our strategic goals), whereas 10% raids Vanguard, and 10% raids Tiber.

Of course, this is all dependent on building up a sufficient logistical infrastructure to support a campaign, as well as attaining enough reconnaissance information to ascertain Vanduul force strengths and responses.
United Space Confederation Envoy to Operation Pitchfork
Envoy, USC
XO, USC Defense Force Training Command
Member, USC Interstellar Commerce
Member, USC Expeditionary Corps
Member, USC Department of Aerospace Engineering

Aurora LX (Traveller's Tales)
Anvil F7C-M (Ares' Gauntlet)
Anvil Carrack (Grey-Eyed Goddess)
Aegis Vanguard (Hero for Hire)
Anvil Crucible (Rustoff)

Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #1
Keeping a chain of supply through well known pirate systems won't be easy.

Simply put, Nul is an odd choice for a staging area. Normally, you'd deploy your forces from safe ground where your supply stockpiles are secure, quite the opposite of what you are proposing.

Other than that, I do agree that the strategic objectives should comprehend establishing some kind of foothold on the reclaimed systems more than just blowing Vanduul up.
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.

Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #2
I suggested Nul because all the information I can find about it is that there really isn't much there. There is mention of a slaver ring, but the crime rating is "low" and honestly, I figure if worst comes to worse, we can just stomp on some slavers and secure the system.
United Space Confederation Envoy to Operation Pitchfork
Envoy, USC
XO, USC Defense Force Training Command
Member, USC Interstellar Commerce
Member, USC Expeditionary Corps
Member, USC Department of Aerospace Engineering

Aurora LX (Traveller's Tales)
Anvil F7C-M (Ares' Gauntlet)
Anvil Carrack (Grey-Eyed Goddess)
Aegis Vanguard (Hero for Hire)
Anvil Crucible (Rustoff)

Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #3
It's probable that it's as you say, but I'm worried about supply lines through unsecured space.

Still, there's not many other options for multiple-front attacks.

Couldn't we do a test run of the fleet's capabilities on Nul and take it over? That would solve the problem and give us a solid staging ground for the operation.
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.

  • Ratu
  • [*][*][*]
  • Enrolled
Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #4
It would also give us some 'good guy' points with the UEE for getting rid of the slavers.

Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #5

It would also give us some 'good guy' points with the UEE for getting rid of the slavers.


Didn't even think about that. I wonder how reputation for organizations will be handled......

Though, looking at the map, there are 5 planets in Nul, but none habitable. So, there's a good chance that one or two of those are gas giants, which means it is feasible to construct a refueling station of some sort. Similarly, there may be mineral deposits that could be mined, and turned into munitions for The Cause. Assuming, of course, that we can build stations and whatnot.
United Space Confederation Envoy to Operation Pitchfork
Envoy, USC
XO, USC Defense Force Training Command
Member, USC Interstellar Commerce
Member, USC Expeditionary Corps
Member, USC Department of Aerospace Engineering

Aurora LX (Traveller's Tales)
Anvil F7C-M (Ares' Gauntlet)
Anvil Carrack (Grey-Eyed Goddess)
Aegis Vanguard (Hero for Hire)
Anvil Crucible (Rustoff)

Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #6
I'm mostly in agreement with Ogi. I think that most of our force should be a single spearhead. I also think that Nul is the best staging point, because all of us could meet there without getting into a scuffle with the UEE. After all, people with certain reputations probably would be chased out from any UEE-controlled system and we'd need to be able to spend time organizing there, and possibly using that location for refueling and/or repairs while the fighting is going on. Whatever slavers are there could be easily routed with our forces if they choose to engage. The only problem is if they don't choose to engage, and instead wait until the main force has gone to fight. Then they'd attack our support craft (probably somewhat successfully). We could put in some effort before OP begins to clear the slavers there to alleviate this threat, though.

However, I feel the main focus of our attack should be Tiber. We're going to have to kill all the aggressive Vanduul eventually, so the quickest way is to attack them where they are strongest. They'll be quick to reinforce it, which really just brings the targets we want to attack to us. I think we should have diversionary forces, but small ones that try almost exclusively to buy time and pull off reinforcements. This keeps a more steady - but smaller - reinforcement pressure on the main front. The diversionary forces should be fairly organized and small.

I suspect there may be a jump route between Nul and Tiber. That'd be nice.

  • Jonais
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Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #7
Wiping out the pirate forces in Nul really isn't an option any more than wiping out the UEE in Garron is. We have large contingents on both sides of that fence. If we get attacked then the attackers will get wiped out easily. Even after we move our attack in, there should be more than enough support craft remaining to take out anything trying to raid them.
Tumbleweeds. A Lone Wolves inspired org.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/TUMBLWEEDS

Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #8
I guess you are right that I made an incorrect assumption when I thought that the slavers inhabiting Nul couldn't be sided with. However, the UEE would be obligated to bring in any criminals gathering in their space, while any criminals would not. I'd assume that any slavers at Nul would lay low until things cleared up a little bit. This'd still leave our support craft vulnerable, however, and we can't afford to leave them a large escort.

  • Ratu
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Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #9
@Jonais, that depends on what our pirate colleagues think of slavers. In my mind there's a big difference between a slaver and a pirate though I could be wrong.

  • Jonais
  • [*][*][*]
  • Enrolled
Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #10
I would prefer not to actively attack pirate/UEE patrols unless they attack us. That way we completely avoid any RP issues with the different factions of OP. We're all coming together to attack the vanduul. Let's not mess with that by trying to clear out other systems. As for our supply lines being vulnerable... Patrols probably aren't going to consist of more than 3 or 4 ships each. Our supply lines are still going to number in the dozens, if not hundreds. They don't need to worry about patrols any more than our full contingent would.
Tumbleweeds. A Lone Wolves inspired org.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/TUMBLWEEDS

  • Benjamin the Rogue
  • [*][*][*]
  • Staff
Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #11
Yes, that's exactly how it should be conducted. We're not traveling through space looking for a fight from anyone but the Vanduul. But if anyone attacks a Forker on our way to Vanduul space, they'd better be ready for some almighty wrath coming down on them.

  • Ratu
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Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #12
Fair enough. But yeah, I think most pirate patrols would be in for a bad time if they ran into us.

  • JackDaniels
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  • Former - Shout Box Lurker & Forum - Admin
Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #13

Fair enough. But yeah, I think most pirate patrols would be in for a bad time if they ran into us.


why a bad time we already have Pirate groups in this OP with us already.. They are here for killing the Vanduul just like any one else..
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  • Jonais
  • [*][*][*]
  • Enrolled
Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #14
He's referring to NPC patrols. They're going to be on a set route, so we're sure to have some run into us at some point. At that point the pirate PCs will step back and let the non pirates handle it so that there is no rep damage. Same goes for UEE patrols (if that happens).
Tumbleweeds. A Lone Wolves inspired org.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/TUMBLWEEDS

Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #15
I don't like the idea of attacking Tiber in any sort of major offensive. Raid it, absolutely. Take and hold it? Negative. It connects to too many Vandy jump points.
United Space Confederation Envoy to Operation Pitchfork
Envoy, USC
XO, USC Defense Force Training Command
Member, USC Interstellar Commerce
Member, USC Expeditionary Corps
Member, USC Department of Aerospace Engineering

Aurora LX (Traveller's Tales)
Anvil F7C-M (Ares' Gauntlet)
Anvil Carrack (Grey-Eyed Goddess)
Aegis Vanguard (Hero for Hire)
Anvil Crucible (Rustoff)

  • Benjamin the Rogue
  • [*][*][*]
  • Staff
Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #16
Tiber gives us a major chance to capture Vanduul construction technology we can exfil out to a safer location. And besides, OPPF is all about the chance to kill as many Vanduul as we can before dying gloriously. Tiber will likely be the best place for that!

Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #17
Please don't forget that we are taking on a FACTION's NAVY! While we have numerical superiority to any loose affiliation of players currently(and probably ever), we will still be VASTLY outnumbered.

The instancing may favor us adaptable people over the NPCs, by not letting them just group together and pew pew us to death through a single fleet action, they will still be able to grind us to peopleburgers with pure Chinese-like attrition(if you dont know what attrition is you probably shouldn't be in the command room).

That being said, we should pick ONE target. A target that is:
1. Easily reached on the Vanuul border or just behind it.
2. Has the weakest garrison forces.
3. Can be reached by both our civil and criminal brothers without pissing off the (human) NPCs too bad.
4. Has features that would make it defensible in the case of a counterattack.
(Least important strategicaly)5. Fulfills the capture goals of various factions within our revolution (scythes,carriers,tech, ect.)

I don't currently trust the maps with jump points on them and until we actually conduct scouting, we will have no ideas on garrison strength. The only suggestion i would put forth with full faith is NOT TIBER!

In terms of strategic viability in fulfilling 1 and 3 the best system so far is vulture, tentatively.
  • Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 05:26:04 PM by justin111111

Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #18
I disagree with you Justin.

First, we aren't facing an entire Faction. The Vanduul are divided in "Hordes", which are as prone to attack each other as they are to attack humans. While we still can't know what number of ships the Hordes populating the systems we pretend to attack have, it should be "safe" to assume that it won't be the entire Vanduul armada opposing us as a single fighting force. This doesn't mean that we won't be outnumbered... although I have my reservations based on fleet logistics.

I share your distrust of the current map, however, I disagree on your general idea of fighting the Vanduul where they are weakest. If we are to believe that the AI will react to our campaign in a "realistic" manner (I'm hoping they will, and judging by how CR envisions the game, they should) any minor Vanduul fleet that would find our opposition to be too great would flee contact and seek out support from the rest of the Horde.

I know some people have claimed that this may be a good thing, but eventually the Vanduul would come for us with greater numbers. After all, we are providing them with an entire fleet to salvage if they destroy us.

I invite you to check out my battle plan for further elaboration on this concepts, if you are interested to read a bit more about my ideas that is.
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.

  • Shobab
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Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #19
I agree with Death Call. I do not believe we should attack the weakest area. Why you might ask. Once we get any victory or defeat out numbers will fall heavily. I suggest we use our initial numbers the max efficiency and go for tiber to attempt to take out our hardest area. If we succeed there then the rest will be easier and will probably boost our numbers.

Also, if we can weaken Tiber enough, even if we all die, the UEE could potentially take that opportunity and attack and take Tiber. Which would be a victory for us as well.

  • Jonais
  • [*][*][*]
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Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #20
I disagree about any victory causing us to lose numbers. I think it will add validation to our cause, show people it's possible to win, and whet the appetite of all involved to continue on. I think a minor victory is more likely to bolster our numbers as long as we're not hopping all over the place and we keep our force together for the most part.
Tumbleweeds. A Lone Wolves inspired org.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/TUMBLWEEDS

Re: Ogi's proposal
Reply #21
The problem with minor victories is that they will be inconsequential. The Vanduul might not want to commit their capital ships to battle unless they see the odds strongly in their favor. This could mean that the only way to have a proper combat with them will be fighting either while outnumbered or on even grounds.

I guess that, ultimately, it'll depend on how their AI is programmed and if they actually have an overall command structure (Faction or Horde Centered) that dictates their moves. If we were to talk about what would be logic, I seriously doubt they'd expose their ships to the brunt of our forces if they don't think they can win. This will lead us into fighting a bunch of smaller (non-important) battles up to the point where they have gathered enough of their fleet together to overcome us.

There's another matter that I haven't seen brought up enough (considering it's relevance) that we have to take into account. It might be beyond the objectives of this Operation, I don't know, but I still think we should consider it.

How much space we can take is only as important as how much space we can hold. If we only rout the Vanduul, then we've accomplished only a minor - temporary - victory. As long as the Vanduul are still combat effective, we won't be able to rest. This is why I support the "Decisive Battle" doctrine for this Operation.
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.