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Topic: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts (Read 2560 times) previous topic - next topic

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Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
OPPF Preset Marine Boarding Battalion Template

This is my proposed Marine structure from several months back that got buried in the forums when it was katamaried. (Right click and open in a new tab to zoom in.) I'll explain my choices and reasoning and I am indeed looking for and open to feedback.

-Why A Battalion?-We currently have 4,000 registered members. 500 accounts for 1/8th of them.  It is very probable that most want to be pilots instead of Marines. Therefore as OPPF grows in number a Battalion will seem like a reasonable goal and size for many months until something else is needed in which case we can copy this template as we gain Battalions to make a Regiment with little shake up in the command structure for Orgs to use. This is going alongside the stated goal of 100,000 total OPPF members at invasion day. (I expect 10-20% are likely to be Marines as nearly all Orgs want to capture Vanduul ships so it is not unattainable,but it is very,very far away.)

-Why 10 Command Staff?-You may be asking why the command staff when there are Company Captains. This is for coordination and information purposes. The command staff will not only be telling Marine Companies various amounts of commands and information across multi-deck ships,but also between transportation and logistical units supporting them on top communication with the primary naval forces that are the bulk of OPPF. All of this requires a command staff for the Marine Commander to make informed decisions in our crucial struggle. (These are armed non-combatants who will be shouting for several hours to keep the war effort functioning and add a line of defense against suicidal assassins.)

-Why are all the Companies Specializations labeled as "None"? This is a standard label that we can change as more information comes about actual FPS combat,because we already know there will be multiple ways of entering and fighting in a ship. EVA for example is confirmed,but we cannot expect everyone to have them so there is no EVA Company that will independently fly onto the hull of another ship and breach until invest in the equipment and decide on it. Additionally recently the Drake Caterpillar has been recently shown with Marine Torpedo Tubes(Yes you can shoot people at ships.). In addition they're going to be planetside as well as in space so another Battalion could be dedicated to Planetfall for a Battle Group,however their ultimate objective is to capture a Kingship as stated elsewhere. So this is why the label is standardized. There are so many potential methods that currently we're just going to leave it vague for possible future plans.

-Why an entire Company of Titan Infantry?-Quite simply they will destroy a great deal of opposition when they're deployed with their speculated ridiculous amounts of firepower as mini-mechs. Vehicles and artillery are not factors in the bulkheads of ships and this is a great substitute. Provided they can walk through hallways they would make excellent walking areas of denial after Marines clear an LZ for them. (I actually got this idea from Warhammer 40K's Space Hulk Deathwing game. Which is an entire Company of soldiers in Terminator Armor which is the Star Citizen equivalent to Titan armor walking through a derelict ship infested with aliens. You can see the similarities.)

-Why Demolitionists?-This one is simple. Not only do we want to potentially destroy areas of a ship,but we also want to get there so if there is a sealed bulkhead door we can blow it open and advance.

-Why Combat Medics?-Really? Ok it's because people get hurt and it's likely gung ho Marines will pack ammunition instead of medical supplies. So if we keep more people up and alive the more Vanduul we can kill with functioning shaky arms holding assault rifles.

-Why a seperate Transportation and Logistics crew when we have a Logistics Division?- They are still ferrying supplies to us and other units,but put simply our job is different from the OPPF's Navy so if we can operate independently without confusion things will run more smoothly with our transports shipping supplies when not ferrying troops. It's likely 2 Genesis Transports can ferry a full company to and from targets so the numbers aren't to unrealistic either. The quartermasters are to load and separate Marine supplies from Navy supplies and help with the Medical Station where the separate Medical staff comes in for severely wounded doubling as a multi-purpose ground crew. (The Marine Command Staff are likely going to be positioned with them as well for easier coordination leaving 20 people constantly keeping the war effort going from one strategic location.This also lessens the odds of sabotage with more eyes watching and more guns in hand.)

-Where is everyone else?-This is the beauty of the structure. It is organized and loose. All the standard Companies of the structure can and will be filled by "randoms" from participating orgs,lonewolfs and walk-ins. This is approximately 350 of the proposed 500 Battalion members. Demolitions and Medical are reliant on supplies which can simply be distributed to the men under the Lieutenants who give them guidance bringing form and function to these loose numbers of volunteers. It is also likely those who enjoy FPS combat will have invested for Titan armor and will volunteer for the Special Company as well.
 
-How effective will this be?-Effective enough to capture a Destroyer. A Kingship which is our end goal is said to have 300 fighters which will undoubtedly hinder transports and 1,400 Vanduul inside the ship itself across the multi-kilometer multi-deck ship. To be numerically even we would need 3 Battalions. At that point I'd say push for 4 Battalions and bump the Command Staff up to make a Regiment as casualties are expected over the course of OPPF.

OPPF Preset Special Forces Wing Template

This came out of a conversation here. https://operationpitchfork.com/forums/index.php?topic=1675.25 as the original Special Forces thread literally morphed into the Marines you see further above. The intention of this group is to track,study and hinder the Vanduul War Machine with skirmish tactics in a stealthy guerrilla style of warfare throughout the Beta. The primary goal is to destroy as much of their manufactury capacity as possible in the primary form of Harvesters,Tomahawk Cargo Transports, and Driller Escort Carriers due to realistic economic game mechanics and learn in the process. (In the event that CIG is just spawning replacement ships then it adds to the realism and fun regardless.)

-Why a Wing?-It's size means we should not be hindered by game instancing,be able to select the ship types from the asset roster we need with little issue and to be able to move about Vanduul space without drawing too much attention as opposed to a probing raid fleet. (That comes later.)

-Why a Bomber Group?-Covert strikes on high-value targets and unconventional warfare. This is our heavy hitting group in the wing that can and will hinder the Vanduul War Machine. Any attack of opportunity the Recon Group sees that these bombers can hit,they can and will.

-Why only one Squadron of Vanguard Harbingers?-Quite simply we don't have many in our asset roster,but they would be a great spearhead in a bombing run on large/capital ships due to their armor and torpedo count.

-Why so many Gladiators?-We have a healthy number of them.They are about the size of a Hornet. They are faster than a Hornet. They are more maneuverable than a Vanguard.

-Why no Retaliators?-They are big and slow which does not meet the missions specifications of this Wing's swift and stealthy goals.

-Why a Recon Group?-So we can see the enemy around us,track them,study them and destroy them when we see the opportunity.

-Why Hornet Trackers?-They are small. They can dogfight. They can see a good distance around them on radar and in numbers we could even spread a line,circle, or net of them out to track enemy movements.

-Why Heralds?-They are even smaller,faster and therefore harder to hit. They also have communications arrays capable of transmitting signals great distances in system which is very useful when reporting enemy movements or requesting backup forces.

-Why no Vanguard Sentinels?-We have 26 at the moment which is a very small number making it difficult to contact owners and even hard to determine if they qualify for the Special Forces Wing.

-Why no Xi'an Scouts?-Even though they're fast,maneuverable and we have a number of them they lack utility functions for Recon operations.

-Why an Escort/Emergency Reactionary Force?- They are for when shit hits the fan. Firstly the stealth fighters with them are meant to protect the Search and Rescue Ships(SAR.) and Starfarer Logistics/Fuel Tankers. Secondly if the Bomber or Recon Groups require reinforcements they can receive them. Lastly the SAR ships are for when everything has gone to shit and our pilots need rescuing while our Starfarer Logistics/Fuel Tankers are to keep us operating in Vanduul Space for as long as possible before having to jump back into  a friendly system.

-Why Sabres?-They are have strengths Hornets lack such as superior speed and maneuverability while retaining stealth.(It compliments the Hornet Ghost.)

-Why Hornet Ghosts?-They have strengths Sabres lack like more armor and slightly more firepower while retaining stealth.(It compliments the Sabre.)

-Why Cutlass Reds and why 3 flights of them?- They are essentially flying space ambulances and I wanted to make sure we had enough to launch full rescue operations if everything goes to absolute hell so we can bring our boys home.

-Why Starfarers?-They can serve as fuel tankers for long term operations and possible logistics with cargo conversions,but this is unclear. Fuel allows our operation time to be high in Vanduul Space however and does not diminish their value.

-Why no Crucible repair ships?-We only have 17 at the moment. Like the Vanguard Sentinels that's very few and contacting owners would be difficult aswell as vetting them for the Special Forces Wing. Additionally it is likely they do not want to sit around for long periods of time considering the ships has almost no speed or combat ability. We intend to repair and rearm when we have to jump back to a friendly system when we run out of fuel or it becomes extremely dangerous before going back into Vanduul Space.

Walk-In Version of the Special Forces Wing
1st Naval Group-Bombers-Ship Count 48

Ship Requirements-Torpedoes

Priority Level
1-Anvil Gladiator
2-Aegis Vanguard Harbinger
3- Aegis Retaliator

Notes: Discretion over superior firepower with the Gladiators and Vanguard Harbingers. Hit and run with smaller bombers are more in line with the SFW doctrine and leads to less predicted casualties,but function is an even higher priority which is why Retaliators are permitted,but last in priority.

2nd Naval Group-Recon-Ship Count 48

Ship Requirements-Scanners/Stealth

Priority Level
1-Anvil Terrapin
2-Drake Herald
3-Anvil Hornet Tracker
4-Aegis Sabre
5-Anvil Hornet Ghost
6-Anvil Carrack

Notes:Radar and scanners are priority with the Terrapins,Heralds and Trackers.The Carrack is included as it has system mapping capability which is useful despite being highly inefficient in combat statistically. Stealth compliments the low profile long range approach of recon which is why the Sabres and Hornet Ghosts are included here and can double as escorts for Hornet Trackers and Heralds.

Naval Group 3-Escort/Emergency Reactionary Force-Ship Count 48

Ship Requirements-Utility,SAR, Miscellaneous Combat

Priority Level
1-RSI Polaris Corvette
2-Anvil Crucible
3-Drake Cutlass Red
4-MISC Starfarer Variants
5-Fighters

Notes:Any capital ship available will undoubtedly bail out anything in trouble,but have low asset roster counts. Crucibles are the only ship with direct fighter repair capabilities aside from the Javelin and Idris,but have very low asset roster numbers. Cutlass Reds for search and rescue(SAR). Starfarers for refueling to increase operating time. Fighters for emergency defense deployment and are as common as they come which is why they are last in priority.

Always open for feedback on the what and why. How is for all the other theory crafting threads

Can a mod please pin this post btw?

Edit:I'm really creeped out by how many people on imgur were looking at these.
  • Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 01:03:22 AM by Jack Knife

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Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #1
Have you considered putting corvettes into the escort/reactionary force? I know we almost nothing about them but it seems almost certain now that the corvette will be focused on combating lighter targets, fighters and bombers, while also having limited anti-cap capabilities. It'll probably have some decent staying power in a fight unless it's up against destroyers and cruisers. They'll probably have decent sensors as well, or we can upgrade them to have decent sensors, so they can help in that regard as well.

As for stealth and the corvettes attracting a lot of attention, you've included starfarers in here and they aren't stealthy. The corvette will be right around the same size as the starfarer so it be like a giant flare in the middle of space, at least not any more than what you've already included. Just a thought.

Also about the marine batallion, is having that wise? As you said a lot of orgs want to do FPS stuff and want to capture Vanduul ships. Given how OPPF is basically a horde it seems like it might be easier to just tell an org that has FPS members to go attack some ship and let them do it their way.
  • Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 08:50:10 AM by Jatzi

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Reply #2
Corvettes are in limited numbers of about 100 total in our asset roster and are very likely to be used by their designated Orgs in the Beta leading up to OPPF and would not want to divert them to the Special Forces Wing for months. That being said they are mainly intended for conventional warfare or system patrols as seen in mission 1 of Squadron 42 as they carry only 3 ships.  They cannot meet our logistical needs just as we cannot bring Crucibles as they too are low in number despite any need for repairs. As for targeting light or capitol ships the current wing composition is fit for targeting both. It is stated in the Gladiator Brochure that the payload of x4 Size 5 Torpedoes is enough to destroy a single Corvette. This tells us two things which are that our Bomber Naval Group is fully capable of destroying several capitol ships and that Idris Corvettes are vulnerable to the right enemy light ships. Meanwhile any larger capitol ship that is not a cargo based one would surely outgun it. By this logic the firepower spread across the Bomber Naval Group is much more effective being capable of mass destruction and carrying out bombing runs on multiple targets or areas at the same time as opposed to a larger and assumed slower Corvette which as stated would also have a larger radar signature.

Starfarers however are in double the supply at 200 making them easier to have willing players divert to this wing and extend the overall operational time in system before withdrawing for rearming and repairs in a friendly system.(Lack of Crucibles and proper Capitol Ships for logistics.) It is true that their signature is higher than a fighter due to their size,but unlike the Corvette who you proposed to be used in combat the Starfarer is not and can run cold giving off almost no signature or potentially none if we go so far as to shut them down until needed in the rear when the emergency/reactionary force is away.(Actual emissions are currently unknown to me as they were just released and subject to change.) This is also why they are 6 out of our 48 ships in that Naval Group so they attract less attention. It is also likely to even out emissions wise to their 42 escorts who could also potentially run cold if necessary waiting to be called with their naturally lower emissions as stealth ships.

A Marine Battalion is necessary as one of our ideal goals is to capture a Kingship which has 1,300 Vanduul onboard. Our current manpower registered into the org on RSI is slightly over 4,000 therefore this requires coordination. The true purpose of this Battalion is to set a precedent as the Beta arrives for orgs who only registered representatives to ideally devote a small percentage of manpower to a concentrated Marine Force under our direction as each capitol ship has hundreds of Vanduul inside them since that is literally where they live. A small capitol ship like the Hunter Destroyer has 300 Vanduul for example which a single Battalion of 500 Marines is capable of potentially  capturing. we need far more manpower to capture a legendary Kingship. Very few Orgs in reality can even attempt to take over a Vanduul Capitol ship like a Hunter independently. Also each Marine is one less potential fighter pilot in action so if Orgs self-divide troops for boarding actions the chances of failure increase for them and the Operation as a whole. It is far easier to simply destroy capitol ships than to capture them as they will be grouped in clan fleets and highly deadly. They must be isolated as the majority of the clan fleet is destroyed,then disabled,then boarded before the Vanduul potentially self-destruct their ship. There is an entire painstaking process to even begin boarding a ship let alone capture it. In short either centrally  coordinate for boarding ships or destroy ships entirely with the minor exception of large Orgs who have enough manpower to independently capture ships,however none have stepped forward claiming such intentions in the future.

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Reply #3
Corvettes are in limited numbers of about 100 total in our asset roster and are very likely to be used by their designated Orgs in the Beta leading up to OPPF and would not want to divert them to the Special Forces Wing for months.

You're talking about the Idris right? That's a frigate now:) I'm talking about the new upcoming corvette. No one owns one right now. Anyways, I wasn't saying they were needed, I was just suggesting maybe adding them for additional firepower in the escort/reactionary force. I mean that is kind of the intended role of the new corvette, at least all info points to that being the role and it's the general community consensus as well. I was just suggesting it for the added security and flexibility it provides. The fighters are there to protect everything from Vanduul fighters and they're largely a reactionary force, which is why they're named such. They're there to deal with any fighters that pop up and threaten the bombers or recon ships. I was just thinking that a corvette or two could add a lot of anti-fighter firepower to that force. Additionally, since there are starfarers there to protect, the corvettes could do escort duty allowing more fighters to respond to threats, or vice versa. Also bombers can't be everywhere, and have limited ammo. What if when the force is leaving Vanduul space, after the bombers have used up their ammo, capital ships pop up?

It's not necessary and if you're going for stealth I'd understand leaving them behind. But if you don't care about stealth, to an extent anyways, then maybe they'd useful. Capital ships are CAPITAL SHIPS you know? It'd be nice to have one to fall back to, albeit a small one, if the s**t really really hits the fan. Again I don't think they're necessary and it's just a thought. BTW I would think the corvettes would be able to power down just like the starfarers, in fact I think most ships can if not all.

About the marines, I read somewhere that CIG wasn't even going to fully model the inside of the Kingship because it's so unrealistic that any players would get to the boarding stage in fight with them. Idk, old news maybe? Anyways, I didn't mean just let the orgs do their own thing entirely. Obviously there's going to have be a lot of coordination. I meant was that maybe we should let the orgs setup their marine contingents and handle the boarding and everything and all we do as management is give them a target. So basically say we've disabled a Hunter destroyer, instead of using this cool, very military-like marine unit we could just say org 1, org 2, and org 3 go capture that ship. Those orgs would be orgs with known marine detachments setup among themselves and commanded by themselves. Again, obviously they'd have to work together and I'd say we would have to make sure that the orgs we give targets to know to work together. it just seems simpler and easier to setup and implement.
  • Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 09:42:04 PM by Jatzi

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Reply #4
I was not aware that the distinction was official and there is a new Corvette. Do you have a link per chance of the concept? I still feel more comfortable keeping the number of large ships to a minimum due to stealth,but yes having them run cold could make that work if we have a fair number of them and people will dedicate them to the Wing for several months in the Beta instead of normal play.

Yes we have people questioning is capital ships we destroy pop up or not. It's likely to appear in a 10 for the Chairman at some point we hope. We've already determined that even if that is the case it would make good practice to get experience engaging Vanduul ships.

The Kingship's interior is modeled as seen in the "Behind the scenes with Andy Serkis" video as he plays a Vanduul and apparently the player invades a Kingship with the UEE,because the clan leader gives him the "Vanduul Sword" which is heart of the ship like a special set of car keys. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTHptO-E5RU

Telling Large Orgs could work simply telling them what ship to take if any,but again that doesn't work for ALL the Orgs as I've previously stated most Orgs are not large enough to board a ship by themselves. So a mix of the original idea and yours could potentially work well.

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Reply #5
Ahh never watched that behind the scenes video. I'm surprised you haven't heard about the new corvette though. There hasn't been a concept sale yet, they're not done designing it. However, it's been mentioned several times on RTV and Bensday episodes. A tentative name for it is the RSI Polaris. It's 100-120m long and will apparently have good turret coverage. According to Ben it's supposed to be the capital ship that goes where UEE fleets don't go. The fleets cluster around strategic points so they're ready to respond to threats leaving many systems without a significant UEEN presence and the Polaris fills that gap. So they're very independent.  That's all we really know about it.

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Reply #6
I did some digging and this is what I found. It's supposed to NOT have a hangar and be similar to the Void Bomber statistically shown below,but smaller than a Carrack. However I'd need more solid information on it,because atm it looks like it would not be good for the Special Forces Wing for the same reasons as the Retaliator.

LENGTH   124m
BEAM   90m
HEIGHT   33m
MAX CREW   UNKNOWN
POWER PLANT   4 (equivalent)
ENGINE (PRIMARY THRUSTER)   3x TR5 (equivalent)
MANEUVERING THRUSTERS   10x TR3 (equivalent)
SHIELD   5 (equivalent)
FIXED GUNS   3 x Size 6 - Electron Cannon
MISSILES   4 x Size 4 - Triple-Mount Torpedo Cluster
TURRETS   7 x Size 4 - Laser Repeater Turret
  • Last Edit: April 07, 2016, 06:34:07 PM by Jack Knife

Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #7
Jack, could you cite where those stats came from?

There is an immensely annoying thread on the RSI fora where one of the participants is agitating for the corvette to carry snubfighters, logic be damned.

Anyways. Theorysketching in my head, the Polaris really seems to be oriented towards direct, fairly close-quarters action. Depending on instancing rules, wolf packs of 'vettes might be able to make PT-boat like runs on 'duul escort and subcapital ships.

Extending it a bit further.....I'm wondering if Idrises are really meant to pick on smaller ships in direct action, and use its craft to project power, whereas the Javelin is more of the heavy, designed to stop an enemy attack, but can also serve as the heavy, decisive element in a close-quarters action.....

We have so much to learn. Hm. In any case. What do we talk about now? I really just skimmed to the end.
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Reply #8
Void Bomber Specs
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14774-Classified-Report-Vanduul-Bomber-Identified

See 20:20m into this video 100-125 meters long. "Connie sized" 15-20 crew.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2WjK3wuC60

Starting at 8:52 , Cites excellent gun coverage from Wing Commander 3 Corvette. Flying Flak Battery.
More at 22:26 Ben Lesnick literally says PT Boat. (Spot on Ogi.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1452&v=-EFyBWMViKw

11:23 - Carrier Possibility
27:25 - More Economical or Versatile Corvettes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFkTG9YungQ

15:26 Will the Polaris Corvette have heavy guns on it? Does not say.
16:09 What is the corvette's main mission?  "Skirmisher" and cheap alternative to a Destroyer
23:39 What is the estimated price of the Polaris? Carrack was 350. Price unclear. One week warning for pricing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLpYxot95Ns

As for what other things to talk about now. Possible logistical fixes to our rearm and repair problems,thoughts on current ship composition,possible tactics and anything else you an think of.
  • Last Edit: April 09, 2016, 02:37:00 AM by Jack Knife

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Reply #9
Well the Polaris doesn't matter now as it likely won't be ready for OPPF. Stupid me.

Anyways, I've been thinking about the stuff pre OP. You're planning this strike wing to operate months in advance of the OP. That's cool and all but as you yourself have said Jack we're running pretty low on key logistical ships such as crucibles and Hulls. This isn't anything but a general caveat-we need to keep in mind resource and asset acquisition. We're going to have some time, don't know how much, to acquire resources and ships before the OP. That's what the vast majority of OPPF members are going to be doing, Jack has said in the past the strike force is going to limited in numbers mainly due to participation. People are going to be busy doing their own thing, however we shouldn't rely on them. Those that aren't directly working with OPPF before it starts could show up rich or they could show up with nothing. However, we can directly regulate and assist those that are active, you and me and Sailor etc. The strike force is going to be spending a lot of resources so they won't be real helpful in that department. I also think we should consider ships resources themselves due to the potential time it could take to replace them. Stocking up on multiple ships of the same class, and the requisite parts, should be thing so we can quickly replace losses and perhaps loan them out to those lacking a ship.

Another thing, has anyone considered making all the transport ships NPC's? While human pirates might be a threat, the main threat to our convoys are NPC Vanduul and NPC pirates so NPC transports guarded by human escorts should be enough. Reduces the number of people needed for each convoy thus freeing them up for other duties. The only problem is it's expensive, which is another reason why we should really focus on getting as much money as we can before OPPF starts.

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Reply #10
Well the Polaris development time frame is unknown and V-Day is literally years away still.

This is somewhat true. People can and likely will still support the SFW and acquire many more ships in the Beta(which is expected to be a year long) which could help us fill in the gaps for what we need.

NPC Supply ships are not a bad idea and it has been stated everyone would have the capability of having at least one AI ship following them. Unfortunately we do not know how it works or even if they could carry out a logistical function. More information is needed inside the Beta.
  • Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 01:08:51 AM by Jack Knife

Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #11
NPC Supply ships are not a bad idea and it has been stated everyoen would have the capability of having at least one AI ship following them. Unfortunately we do not know how it works or even if they could carry out a logistical function. More information is needed inside the Beta.

Yeah, but the simple fact is that right now, and for the foreseeable future, we have more hulls than bodies. So, yeah, using NPCs to pilot convoys would be a staggering help. We would get a significant amount of additional combat power, because it would be warm bodies flying ships.
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Reply #12
I fully agree and hope this ends up being the case,but we simply don't know if it's possible for it to work how we want it to yet.

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Reply #13
Yeah, but the simple fact is that right now, and for the foreseeable future, we have more hulls than bodies. So, yeah, using NPCs to pilot convoys would be a staggering help. We would get a significant amount of additional combat power, because it would be warm bodies flying ships.

You know, more ships than ppl isn't always a bad thing. We can expect some heavy casualties and CIG has said that it could take some time to get replacement ships, especially as they get bigger. Having an excess of ships means that we have a buffer before we start to have a lack of replacements.

Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #14
You know, more ships than ppl isn't always a bad thing. We can expect some heavy casualties and CIG has said that it could take some time to get replacement ships, especially as they get bigger. Having an excess of ships means that we have a buffer before we start to have a lack of replacements.

I was alluding to that, but yeah.

Still, if we have to toss our logistics ships into the front line, we have other problems to worry about. Like....roughly all of them.
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Reply #15
I had an idea of the possibility of a looser structure for the Special Forces Wing(SFW)based on ship priority levels for the sub branches including all relevant possibilities for function outside of the pre-designed structure since the reality of manpower and people having lives outside of OPPF is relevant once the Beta bombings begin. This is basically if you just walk into the door and want to do something. Nothing particularly complicated,just organized based on branch and ship type since dedicated pilots may not occur.

1st Naval Group-Bombers-Ship Count 48

Ship Requirements-Torpedoes

Priority Level
1-Anvil Gladiator
2-Aegis Vanguard Harbinger
3- Aegis Retaliator

Notes: Discretion over superior firepower with the Gladiators and Vanguard Harbingers. Hit and run with smaller bombers are more in line with the SFW doctrine and leads to less predicted casualties,but function is an even higher priority which is why Retaliators are permitted,but last in priority.

2nd Naval Group-Recon-Ship Count 48

Ship Requirements-Scanners/Stealth

Priority Level
1-Anvil Hornet Tracker
2-Drake Herald
3-Aegis Sabre
4-Anvil Hornet Ghost
5-Anvil Carrack

Notes:Radar and scanners are priority with the Hornet Trackers and Drake Herald.The Carrack is included as it has system mapping capability which is useful despite being highly inefficient in combat statistically. Stealth compliments the low profile long range approach of recon which is why the Sabres and Hornet Ghosts are included here and can double as escorts for Hornet Trackers and Heralds.

Naval Group 3-Escort/Emergency Reactionary Force-Ship Count 48

Ship Requirements-Utility,SAR, Miscellaneous Combat

Priority Level
1-RSI Polaris Corvette
2-Anvil Crucible
3-Drake Cutlass Red
4-MISC Starfarer Variants
5-Fighters

Notes:Any capital ship available will undoubtedly bail out anything in trouble,but have low asset roster counts. Crucibles are the only ship with direct fighter repair capabilities aside from the Javelin and Idris,but have very low asset roster numbers. Cutlass Reds for search and rescue(SAR). Starfarers for refueling to increase operating time. Fighters for emergency defense deployment and are as common as they come which is why they are last in priority.
  • Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 01:56:25 PM by Jack Knife

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Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #16
Yes, that looser structure will definitely fit much better I think. As professional and efficient as we like to be sometimes, we do need to keep in mind that this is a game and people are playing for fun in their spare time. Out of curiosity though, why suddenly prioritize the capital ships for the 3rd Naval Group? I can see partial benefits if some of them are ready for play by that time, but we still don't exactly know a quick route from Earth or wherever the starting point will be, to Vega, which is really the first system that will give our capital ships accessibility to Vanduul space. It's a nice idea, but right now it just doesn't seem reasonable given what we know. Now if we can find a quick direct route for our capital ships to get to Vega instead of that convoluted scenic route, they will then have access to Oberon and Virgil, and thus Tiber and through that Orion. But again, unless we can actually get our capital ships to Vega, we have no real launch point for them in these pre-op missions.

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Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #17
Yes, that looser structure will definitely fit much better I think. As professional and efficient as we like to be sometimes, we do need to keep in mind that this is a game and people are playing for fun in their spare time. Out of curiosity though, why suddenly prioritize the capital ships for the 3rd Naval Group? I can see partial benefits if some of them are ready for play by that time, but we still don't exactly know a quick route from Earth or wherever the starting point will be, to Vega, which is really the first system that will give our capital ships accessibility to Vanduul space. It's a nice idea, but right now it just doesn't seem reasonable given what we know. Now if we can find a quick direct route for our capital ships to get to Vega instead of that convoluted scenic route, they will then have access to Oberon and Virgil, and thus Tiber and through that Orion. But again, unless we can actually get our capital ships to Vega, we have no real launch point for them in these pre-op missions.

I was not considering jump points,but simple firepower. I'm glad you brought up jump point sizes though since I brought up the ARK Map and CIG moved things again. Seemingly to hinder the UEE Navy and us at the same time. Vega for some reason is no longer connected to Sol and to move Large type ships there from Sol it takes 11 jumps to get to Vega. That aside there are only 2 target systems for large type ships to jump to from UEE space which are Virgil in the "North" and Vanguard in the "South" force feeding large ships into bottle necks which will be annoying for V-Day.

Back to map operations. I would intend to operate the SFW out of Oberon with Vega as a back lines supply point for 2 reasons. 1 it is "unclaimed" allowing anyone in OPPF to operate without scrutiny and secondly it has 1 large jump point to Virgil just like Vega and 2 medium jump points to Tiber and Caliban. This gives us 3 targets(Virgil,Tiber, and Caliban.) with medium level ships on the front we're actually going to use allowing for battlefield familiarity and intel for later.

I'm going to limit the ships further to Medium Jump Point size as well now to allow this to happen and potentially free up any capital ships that might be looking at the SFW to go do something potentially more useful. I looked around for ship to jump point size facts aswell and there is nothing official just comparisons and a concencus that a Carrack and Polaris (~150m) should fit in Medium Jump points. Idris(~250m) is a maby and Javelin(~350m) is a no. That being said until we get solid information I'll remove the Javelin and Idris just to be sure.
  • Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 01:13:20 AM by Jack Knife

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Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #18
Is this going to be the force that does most of the play-testing before the operation? You know, testing reaction times and Vanduul deployments? If so I think at some point capital ships should be focused on because we need to know some things about them. First of course, we need practice using them; our crews need to see combat to get experience and practice. Second, how the Vanduul react is important and the differences in their reactions to just fighters squadrons and small battle groups is vital.

Of course if this isn't for testing out theories and whatnot then ignore that. However my first point still stands regardless; we need to actively put our capital ships into combat as much as we can to form and test strategies and just earn experience fighting in capital ships. Friendly duels? Maybe a bit costly. Anyways I think the SFW could be useful for accomplishing this. Maybe not at first but later on?

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Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #19
Is this going to be the force that does most of the play-testing before the operation? You know, testing reaction times and Vanduul deployments? If so I think at some point capital ships should be focused on because we need to know some things about them. First of course, we need practice using them; our crews need to see combat to get experience and practice. Second, how the Vanduul react is important and the differences in their reactions to just fighters squadrons and small battle groups is vital.

Of course if this isn't for testing out theories and whatnot then ignore that. However my first point still stands regardless; we need to actively put our capital ships into combat as much as we can to form and test strategies and just earn experience fighting in capital ships. Friendly duels? Maybe a bit costly. Anyways I think the SFW could be useful for accomplishing this. Maybe not at first but later on?

The primary goal of the SFW is to destroy Vanduul supply lines,logistics and assets of opportunity for several months or possibly even a year using thousands of torpedoes in order to hopefully face a weaker Vanduul force when invading on V-Day. In this process it is expected that we will learn a great deal about Vanduul behavioral patterns,ship compositions and reactions.

The majority of Capital Ships especially the big ones will be primarily crewed by AI. Those that currently posess them will undoubtedly figure out how to utilize them over time. Anything over a Polaris is rather large and may not fit into 2 of the 3 target jump locations. Additionally they have a higher signature that is likely to be very high as they are also significantly larger than a Polaris by hundreds of meters.

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Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #20
The primary goal of the SFW is to destroy Vanduul supply lines,logistics and assets of opportunity for several months or possibly even a year using thousands of torpedoes in order to hopefully face a weaker Vanduul force when invading on V-Day. In this process it is expected that we will learn a great deal about Vanduul behavioral patterns,ship compositions and reactions.

The majority of Capital Ships especially the big ones will be primarily crewed by AI. Those that currently posess them will undoubtedly figure out how to utilize them over time. Anything over a Polaris is rather large and may not fit into 2 of the 3 target jump locations. Additionally they have a higher signature that is likely to be very high as they are also significantly larger than a Polaris by hundreds of meters.

Yeah I know all that. I'm just saying that we need to put the capital ships we have into combat against the Vanduul before the OP at some point. Both the Idris and Javelin are most definitely going to need significant numbers of human players to use efficiently. Perhaps in a fight against AI Vanduul minimal human presence is needed but those who will be using them will need practice in combat. And it shouldn't just be some haphazard lets go kill some Vanduul for fun sort of thing. Letting the orgs do their thing and get practice on their own is fine but I think at least some should be utilized on raids regardless of the additional challenges they present. I'm not saying they should be there all the time but at least once or twice.

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Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #21
Yeah I know all that. I'm just saying that we need to put the capital ships we have into combat against the Vanduul before the OP at some point. Both the Idris and Javelin are most definitely going to need significant numbers of human players to use efficiently. Perhaps in a fight against AI Vanduul minimal human presence is needed but those who will be using them will need practice in combat. And it shouldn't just be some haphazard lets go kill some Vanduul for fun sort of thing. Letting the orgs do their thing and get practice on their own is fine but I think at least some should be utilized on raids regardless of the additional challenges they present. I'm not saying they should be there all the time but at least once or twice.

For the SFW this is simply unnecessary and impractical,but if this occurs it would be separate and the AI crew to human crew ratio I'd imagine would only increase with the size of the ship. For example let's say Idris 10 humans to 30 AI and Javelin 30 humans to 90 AI.(Javelin is unmarked for crew size,but it is a shitload bigger at 345m in length.) It would be interesting to see none the less.

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Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #22
@Jazi Right now our capital ships aren't even finalized in design, let alone flyable. Later on when we actually have something solid on them beyond that they are big with lots of guns, need a large amount of crew, and can take a hit, we can discuss more on activities to put them to use. Again though, we still have the issue of getting them to the front to begin with. As was mentioned it would take 11 jumps just to get them to Vega with all that we currently know. Also, as Jacknife said, it is unnecessary and impractical for SFW.

Also, again, organizing such a structured test will take time and cooperation. OPPF itself is set up as a "You see something that needs doing then go ahead and do it" sort of thing. Some of us here are doing what we can to provide a little direction and suggestion to work with to make things easier on the players and orgs involved, but ultimately it will all be dependent on joint cooperation between orgs and players. That is to say, working together without anyone actually being in direct charge. Just something to keep in mind.

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Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #23
I get what you guys are saying but I'm not sure if you get what I'm saying. Doesn't matter though cuz as you said we know pretty much nothing about cap ships and we should wait. Sorry for pushing for their use, I'm a cap ship guy rather than a fighter jock.

Re: Jack Knife's Command Branch Structure Charts
Reply #24
     In response to Jack Knife's organizational structures, I'm curious as to whether or not the Titan infantry will be supported by regular infantry. Regular infantry will have its advantages, in stealth and in covering large areas of ground around the titan suits. Basically, they should be treated like tanks.

     Also, I have the same issue with the structure for ships. I believe each unit should have its own fighter escort, in order to cover its weaknesses. Fighters themselves probably serve to real purpose other than as escorts anyway.

     I also have an alternative command structure for ships, but I haven't figured out how to post images here.