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Topic: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan (Read 3103 times) previous topic - next topic

  • Jack Knife
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The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan


TLDR in large text below if you want to skip the historical reference.

United States
11 aircraft carriers
6 battleships
11 cruisers
30+ destroyers

386 carrier based aircraft

Japan
1 battleship
1 light cruiser
8 destroyers


Operation Ten-Go was a Japanese naval operation plan in 1945, consisting of four likely scenarios. Its first scenario, Operation Heaven One became the last major Japanese naval operation in the Pacific Theater of World War II.

In April 1945, the Japanese battleship Yamato (the heaviest battleship in the world), along with nine other Japanese warships, embarked from Japan on a deliberate suicide attack upon Allied forces engaged in the Battle of Okinawa. The Japanese force was attacked, stopped, and almost destroyed by United States carrier-borne aircraft before reaching Okinawa. Yamato and five other Japanese warships were sunk.

The battle demonstrated U.S. air supremacy in the Pacific theater by this stage in the war and the vulnerability of surface ships without air cover to aerial attack. The battle also exhibited Japan's willingness to sacrifice entire ships, even the pride of its fleet, in desperate kamikaze attacks aimed at slowing the Allied advance on the Japanese home islands.

The Yamato possessed the greatest firepower ever mounted on a vessel--more than 150 guns, including nine 18.1-inchers that could hurl 3,200-pound armor-piercing shells on a trajectory of 22.5 miles. Its massive armor was the heaviest ever installed on a dreadnought-class battleship, making it virtually impregnable to the guns of any ship in the world. The flagship of a force of 10 warships, it would head into the East China Sea in an assault against the American fleet off Okinawa. Codenamed Ten-Go, the operation would coincide with a massive aerial kamikaze assault while the Japanese 32nd Army on Okinawa launched a counterattack on the ground. After inflicting maximum damage on the American ships, Yamato would be run aground and serve as a stationary artillery platform until destroyed. Any remaining crew would join the garrison defending Okinawa.

A buzz of excitement crackled through the flag bridges of the U.S. Fifth Fleet. Aboard the battleship New Mexico, Admiral Raymond Spruance studied the newly received surveillance reports. The Yamato, the last of Japan's great battleships, was coming out to fight. Seldom had Spruance's staff seen their boss's cold, gimlet-like eyes flash with such emotion.

In the U.S. Navy of 1945, Raymond Spruance was something of an oddity. A nonaviator whose command included the greatest naval air force ever deployed. But Spruance also commanded a task force of battleships and cruisers whose only duty so far had been the bombardment of enemy shore positions on Okinawa. Now Spruance, a normally cool and analytical old battleship sailor, was drawn by the siren song of a last epic surface battle. He signaled Rear Admiral Mort Deyo, who commanded Task Force 54, to prepare his battle line to meet the Yamato task force. If things went according to plan, the prize of sinking the world's greatest dreadnought would go to the battleship admirals.

But on the eastern side of Okinawa, aboard the carrier Bunker Hill, the commander of Task Force 58--the fast carrier task force--was eyeing the same prize. Vice Admiral Marc "Pete" Mitscher had the gaunt, wizened face of a bird of prey; fittingly, his call sign was "Bald Eagle." Like most senior naval aviation officers, Mitscher had spent a career fighting the battleship admirals who had steered the navy's thinking for most of the current century. One of those was his immediate superior, Raymond Spruance.

Mitscher felt a stirring of battleship versus aircraft carrier rivalry. Though the carriers had mostly fought the great battles of the Pacific, whether air power alone could prevail over a surface force had not been proven beyond all doubt. Here was an opportunity to end the debate forever.

Now Mitscher had a problem. Spruance had just transmitted an all-fleet order to allow the enemy task force to proceed southward, where Admiral Deyo's surface task force would engage it. In the meantime, Mitscher's orders were "to concentrate the offensive effort of Task Force 58 in combat air patrols to meet enemy air attacks."

Like a team of sharp-eyed contract lawyers, Mitscher and his staff pored over the order, looking for slack. Mitscher had served under Spruance long enough to know his style, and Spruance's order had not specifically forbidden Mitscher to go after the enemy. It was as much slack as the Bald Eagle needed.

The trick was in knowing where the enemy fleet was headed and what its objective was. Admiral Deyo's 6 battleships, 7 cruisers, and 21 destroyers were already headed north to intercept the Japanese force. Mitscher acted on a hunch that the Yamato was feinting northwestward. If he was right, the Japanese would soon make a hard turn south toward Okinawa. He signaled his carrier task groups to prepare for action.

The race to get the Yamato was on.

Through the breaks in the low overcast, Admiral Ito caught glimpses of the enemy. He could see the American reconnaissance planes flitting in and out of the clouds, tracking his task force. As Ito turned the Yamato task force southwestward, racing toward Okinawa, the weather turned increasingly sour. Veils of light rain were descending like curtains from the clouds to the sea.

At 20 minutes past noon on April 7, the first wave appeared on the radar. Hunched over his scope, the young radar officer Mitsuru Yoshida tried to sort them out. On his screen they appeared as three large blobs, one for each formation. Gradually they resolved into groups, then flights, then individual airplanes.

From the bridge came a flurry of orders. Each ship in the task force increased its speed to 25 knots. The entire formation swung together to an easterly heading. The waiting was over; Yamato's last fight would be a sea-air engagement, not a surface action against other ships.

An entire formation of warplanes emerged from a gap in the clouds. One after another they peeled off in a dive. Yamato's captain, Rear Admiral Kosaku Ariga, barked "Commence firing!" from his command post atop the bridge tower. In the next instant, 24 antiaircraft guns and 120 machine guns opened fire. Thunder reverberated through the steel decks. From across the water came the echoing gunfire of the screening ships. The gloomy sky turned crimson with the explosions of a thousand shells. Ariga was standing out in the open, shouting commands as the first bombs and machine gun bullets rained down on the Yamato. The battleship's thick armor plate resisted most of the bombs, but shrapnel and bullets sliced through the gun crews like a scythe.

The dive bombers were the hardest to defend against because they were attacking from almost straight overhead. The gunners were having trouble tracking them until the enemy planes had already released their bombs and were pulling out of their dives. A bomb from an SB2C Helldiver wiped out a five-inch gun turret, shredding the bodies of all the gunners. Another bomb exploded into the radar room, killing everyone inside.

The fighters--F4U Corsairs and F6F Hellcats--were attacking in shallow dives, mainly dropping lighter bombs, but their machine guns were raking the ship with deadly precision. The hellish concussion of gunfire, roaring engines, and rattling machine guns beat like a hammer on the flesh of every man aboard the ships.

Off Yamato's port beam appeared the torpedo planes, looking dark and ominous in the gray murk. As the TBM Avengers swooped in closer, the smaller guns on Yamato joined in the collective defense. One of the torpedo planes took a hit in the wing, pulled up in flames, then plunged into the sea. The others kept coming. Torpedoes dropped from their bellies, slashing through the water toward Yamato.

Admiral Deyo had just received a cheery send-off from his immediate boss: "We hope you will bring back a nice fish for breakfast." Deyo was in the act of scribbling his reply when he was interrupted by an incoming report. Mitscher's planes had just found the Japanese fleet. Deyo tried to swallow his disappointment. He finished the message with, "...if the pelicans haven't caught them all." Deyo had been around the navy long enough to know that some things never changed; given the chance, the damned "airedales" would steal the glory.

Pelicans or not, Deyo was sticking to his orders, taking his battlewagons north. If nothing else, he was going to earn himself a footnote in military history. Morton Deyo would be the last naval commander in World War II--perhaps history--to form a battle line against an enemy fleet.

From the cockpit of his F6F-5 Hellcat fighter, Yorktown air group commander Herb Houck was directing the planes of his group. It was 1:14 p.m., over an hour since the first wave located the Japanese force. Houck's group was in the third wave.

The operation was supposed to be a coordinated strike, with Task Force 58's task groups supporting each other. The tactic had been used and refined since the first air battles of the South Pacific. In successive waves, strike groups from each carrier would bear down on the Japanese task force. The fighters were supposed to go first, strafing, rocketing, dropping light ordnance, distracting the enemy gunners while the SB2C Helldivers plunged almost straight down with their heavy bombs. They would be closely followed by the TBM Avenger torpedo planes, which needed all the distraction and diversion they could get when they made their dangerous low altitude runs straight at the enemy ships.

At least that was the plan. There was nothing coordinated about the frenzied, disjointed air strike on the Yamato force. Each task group had launched its aircraft without waiting its turn. Each strike leader was trying to be the first to hit the target.

The first to locate the Yamato's task force had been the planes of Task Group 58.1, from the carriers San Jacinto, Bennington, Hornet, and Belleau Wood. Right behind them came the units from Task Group 58.3 and the carriers Essex, Bunker Hill, Bataan, and Cabot. In the third wave, nearly an hour later, appeared the 106 planes of Task Group 58.4 launched from Intrepid, Yorktown, and Langley. (The only group to miss the show was Task Group 58.2, which Mitscher had detached to protect the kamikaze-damaged carriers Franklin, Enterprise, and Yorktown as they limped to a repair facility at Ulithi.)

As each group arrived over the target, the planes had to jockey for position in the narrow band of sky between the ocean and the lowest deck of clouds at about 1,500 feet. The risk of a midair collision was almost as great as the chance of being hit by the enemy. SB2C Helldivers plummeted through any hole they could find in the overcast, sometimes sharing the space with other planes. Some lost sight of their targets in the clouds, then had to make frantic corrections as they broke clear. Radio discipline had vanished, the tactical frequency was a bedlam of excited chatter, pilots yelling out target locations, calling bomb hits, reporting planes going down.

The Japanese ships were zigzagging across the water like rabbits evading hounds. The destroyers, more nimble than the light cruiser Yahagi and the dreadnought Yamato, were the hardest to hit. They were also the most vulnerable, sinking quickly when they took a bomb or torpedo. The destroyer Hamakaze went down within minutes of the first attack. Two more destroyers were trailing black smoke, moving at only half speed. They were maneuvering in a counterclockwise circle around Yamato, adding their guns to the collective fire.

For most pilots, it was their first look at the San Shiki ("Type three") shells fired from the massive 18.1-inch guns. They were monsters, each weighing as much as an automobile and filled with incendiary tubes that burst in a cone toward incoming airplanes. And then the pilots noticed something else peculiar: the antiaircraft fire was exploding in multiple colors. It was a Japanese tactic they had heard about but not seen--each ship's guns fired a different color to assist the gun directors in spotting their fire.

The use of San Shiki and colored gunfire was a good sign: it meant the enemy guns were probably not radar directed. They were using visual aiming and ranging, and doing a bad job of it. Though they were putting up a storm of antiaircraft fire, the gunners were missing with great consistency. A few unlucky planes were hit, but most eluded the gunfire.

The best news for the American airmen was the absence of enemy fighters. For some unfathomable reason, the Japanese had deployed the task force with no air cover; the Americans could concentrate on the targets without constantly checking their six o'clock for enemy fighters.

Air group commander Houck had already assigned his 12 Avenger torpedo planes, led by Lieutenant Commander Tom Stetson, to finish off the Yahagi. But Stetson had just gotten a good look at the Yamato. The ship appeared to be listing badly. He radioed Houck that he wanted to split his group and go after the battleship with six of his Avengers.

Houck concurred, ordering Stetson to change the torpedo running depth from 10 feet to 20. The 10-foot depth had been preset to hit cruisers. Going to 20 feet would put the fish below Yamato's thicker armor plate, right into its exposed lower hull.

Watching the inclinometer at his command post tilting past 20 degrees, Yamato's captain Ariga reached an agonizing decision. The battleship's list to port had become critical. The system of pumps and valves that had flooded the stabilizing compartments and corrected the earlier list was no longer working. The all-important aft water control center had taken a torpedo strike and a direct bomb hit. He would have to flood the starboard outer engine room. Flooding the space would help correct the list, but it would reduce Yamato's available power. It would also mean certain death for the 300 men in the starboard engine compartments.

In a choking voice, Ariga gave the order. The valves were opened. Seconds later the violent implosion of sea water snuffed out the life of every man in the flooded engineering rooms. The desperate tactic worked, but only for a while. At 2:10, Ariga felt another torpedo slam into Yamato's stern, jamming its big main rudder hard to port.

Yamato's death was now certain. The ship could not be steered. The list to port quickly worsened, rolling toward 35 degrees. With its port rail nearly submerged, the ship was locked in a counterclockwise turn. The lofty bridge tower was leaning so steeply that the men in the uppermost decks had to cling to rails and stanchions for support. Reluctantly, Ariga gave the order: "Abandon ship!"

On the sixth deck of the bridge tower, the task force commander, Admiral Ito, had already reached the same conclusion. Ito braced himself against the binocular stand and issued his one and only direct command since the battle began: "Stop the operation. Turn back after rescuing the men." From the beginning Ito had been opposed to what he thought was a senseless sacrifice. Now it was coming to the very end he had predicted. The admiral shook hands with his surviving staff officers, then descended the ladder to his sea cabin one deck below. It was the last anyone saw of Seiichi Ito.

2:23 in the afternoon--the Yamato exploded. The blast rose like a volcanic eruption. As the fireball dissipated, a black mushroom cloud took its place, billowing a mile into the sky. The smoke was seen by coast watchers over a hundred miles away on the shore of Kyushu.

It was later theorized that Yamato's 90-degree list caused the shells for its main batteries to slide in their magazine, hitting their fuses and exploding. The eruption sent thousands of pieces of shrapnel into the air, and the rain of debris killed most of the unlucky sailors swimming on the surface. The underwater concussion killed those near the submerged main deck. Swimmers unfortunate enough to be near Yamato's raked smokestack were caught in the massive suction created by the huge open funnel as the ship went under.

Of the ten warships that had set out with the task force, six were still afloat, but barely. The destroyers Isokaze and Kasumi were shattered hulks, adrift in the East China Sea. Over 4,000 men who had sailed aboard Yamato and its escorts were dead. Of Yamato's 3,000-man crew, only 269 had been saved. One of them was Ensign Yoshida, somehow thrown from the whirlpool. He would spend the rest of his life wondering why.

With an ever-present cigarette dangling from his mouth, Vice Admiral Marc Mitscher peered at the still-wet photographs from the strike. Killing Yamato and five of its screening ships had not come without a price. Ten warplanes--four Helldivers, three Avengers, and three Hellcats--had been lost. Four pilots and eight aircrewmen were missing and presumed dead. Several had been snatched from the sea by daring search and rescue crews. Still, the losses were miniscule when measured against those of the previous great air-sea battles.

The Bald Eagle's gamble had paid off. It was all there in the grainy photos--conclusive proof of the warplane's dominance not only of the sky, but of the sea. The age of the battleship was officially over.


Struck by 12 1,000lb bombs 19 American aerial torpedoes, it was sunk, drowning 2,498 of its crew.


TLDR
Many planes destroyed the Yamato and destroyed or heavily damaged it's 9 escort ships proving superiority over naval capital ships. We can kill a Kingship in a similar manner. This is intended for all Kingships except the one we capture.

The OPPF plan referencing the above information is shown below.
Wave 1-Fighters-Anything from the 80% of our asset roster that is all fighters.
Wave 2-Light and Medium Bombers-Gladiators and Harbinger Vanguards
Wave 3-Heavy Bombers-Retaliators and Polarises
Wave 4-Capital Ships-Idris and larger.

The moment our fleets engage with a clan which we will assume it is double the composition below.We will also assume that over the course of our Special Forces Wing strategic bombing campaign that we will know accurate fleet compositions,patterns and formations. This information can be added later.


Wave 1-We shall use the overabundance of our fighters to our advantage. Not only will they bait out and engage the hundreds of enemy fighters sent out of their fleet to engage us they will serve as a distraction to the enemy capital ships. Medium to heavy losses are expected depending on how far the Vanduul fighters are baited out and enemy capital ship response movements,but by the sheer fighter hull count in our asset roster we should outnumber the Vanduul fighters at all times.

Wave 2-These lesser numbered smaller more maneuverable bombers will bypass the fighter furballs and go for the capital ships escorts screening the fleet and eliminate them. These ships are smaller and as such require less torpedoes falling in line with the lower numbers of light and medium bombers we posess creating an opening in one side of the Vanduul fleet formation for the next wave to reach their objective. Should these ships posess left over torpedoes they are to focus fire on other lesser capital ships called out by the wave commander before withdrawing to rearm or if necessary engage in the ongoing furballs the fighters are dogfighting in.

Wave 3-This timed release slower and rock steady flight wave of heavy bombers will fly in a completely straight pattern through the bypass route around or through the furballs and into the gap made by Wave 2 maximizing overlapping turret coverage in this manner to the Kingship the primary objective of this naval strike. Upon reaching the target the sheer number of torpedoes we posess calculated currently at 2400+(600+ Retaliator Bomber variants with 4 size 6 torpedoes each.) should undoubtedly destroy a Kingship even with casualties sustained which are expected to be relatively low bearing in mind screening ships and fighters are destroyed or otherwise engaged. The remaining heavy bombers with payloads are to focus fire at the Wave commander's lead on the remaining capital ships in the Vanduul fleet which at this point with Wave 4 should collapse quickly with the lead ship and largest threat destroyed.

Wave 4-The capital ship on capital ship violence people crave with proper preparation complimented by the remaining Wave 3 support will destroy anything remaining by pushing directly through any remaining fighter furballs with ASA turrets firing in support as they fly toward the final targets of the remaining Vanduul capital ships where all of their firepower will be brought to bare and destroy the clan entirely. Fighter cleanup is likely to occur during and after this occurs.

Thoughts?
  • Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 04:03:23 AM by Jack Knife

Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #1
Possible if you manage to amass the necessary assets to perform the operation AND if they can all be deployed at the same time. Instance limitations might cripple your fleet balance and force you to choose which units to bring.

There's also the fact that Vanduul, while willing to destroy themselves before risking capture, aren't prone to fighting losing battles. Most of the references I've seen in the lore say that the 'duuls avoid fights they can't win. Against a force as big as ours, they'd either gather up help from other clans (very possible since our supply line could be a juicy price and big enough to share) or simply refuse to engage.

Finally, I'm afraid we might be underestimating the Vanduul Capital Ships and their defensive systems. Realoreistically (?) speaking, what you propose has probably been tried before. There must be a reason why the UEE chose to build a new type of dreadnought ship instead of mass producing bombers... don't you think?
  • Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 10:11:05 PM by Commander Deathcall
It's a penguin... with a gun. I'd run if I were you.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #2
Apparently according to new information on Reddit the instancing is something akin to the EVE(I've never played EVE mind you.) bubble system where each instance will be a visible "honeycomb" that you can move between appearing as a massive battle while only being pretty lights and shapes in the distance that you can actually enter. This information however like our current information on instancing is unverified,because it simply isn't in the game yet,but it makes sense. This would allow massive operations to be easier/harder at the same time.

I find this funny as that means we could potentially route Vanduul from an entire system like say Virgil. That would give us a system won(And secured according to the jump point map.),but it would reinforce Tiber. According to your logic we could also use supply baits on them which opens up another avenue of fleet ambushes which would be maddening and potentially very effective.

Well according to lore Tiber fell because it's 2 carriers were on mission in Caliban leaving it's garrisoning capital ships a lack of fighter support kind of like the Yamato which is why the Tiber fleet withdrew to Caliban and then afterward lore for the fall of Caliban is extremely vague. We must also realize that the UEE wan't technically at war with the Vanduul until the battle of Aremis where Bishop used a Messer Era Super Weapon(on a clan that lacked a Kingship) in the form of a city sized flying gun mimicing Ender's Game with it's batshit super magnetic laser thing to destroy fleets and chain reaction a planet. I've also played Chris Roberts games before he adds these for the "cool factor". In Wing Commander 3 there was a giant planet killing laser ship just like the Retribution and it blows up halfway through the game. What happened later is they miniaturized a planet killing bomb to fit underneath your fighter to blow up the Kilrathi homeworld. The cool factor of a super weapon adds more thrill and excitement than a conventional force. Star Wars for example had the Death Star,but as we all know they had a batshit insane army and navy capable of destroying entire fleets which it was doing until a tiny fighter blew up the Death Star, sound familiar? So quite frankly it's not as exciting as a grand scale conventional battle. Just like when Ivar Messer became a war hero in the lore. The Tevarin had a surface to space super weapon he hijacked with Marines to blow up part of the Tevarin Navy before he had to leave because his position was being overrun and detonated the C&C building with that battle leaving ~76K casualties for the UEE in a day,because said weapon was involved. The pattern is there and the idea spawned from the nuke. There is no irl major war since WWII that involved grand scale battles or super weapons since which is why the concept is romanticized in fiction. Aside from that we simply don't have the Retibution and we don't have nukes,but we do have closing in on 1,000 bombers and we can use them.
  • Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 04:13:39 AM by Jack Knife

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #3
The instancing system will be an issue-regardless of how it's set up there will be a limit to the number of ships in any given area. I think the goal of our forces in any battle should be to have local superiority. If we have the number advantage in the individual instances then we can do what you've outlined. Easier said than done. However as has been pointed out we have a lot of fighters and bombers and if we can somehow get the Vanduul forces to be concentrated in a few instances we can probably overwhelm them in a battle of attrition. The reason why I'd say it'd be better if they were concentrated is because then the battle would be easier to manage, and though we would likely be able to cover most instances fairly well I'm sure there'd be gaps because people do their own thing sometimes.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #4
What your getting at basically sounds like a mob cluster and then instancing spits out balanced matches when it's likely to end up as Vanduul Clan after Vanduul Clan in separate areas versus the concentrated OPPF Fleet as it sweeps a system. This defeats the purpose of tactics and strategy and dismisses the lack of information on instancing which again we must wait on defined parameters for. Interestingly enough the wave system actually does theoretically lock in ships into separate instancing by delayed and distanced engagements.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #5
Fair enough. I was just thinking that if they were concentrated we would be able to better concentrate our forces, but I guess that's not a huge issue since we'll likely have a numbers advantage. Indeed if we face multiple clans, and they're localized in different areas of a system, that's perfect. Makes it easy to divide and conquer if they're already divided. But as you said we don't know a whole lot about instancing so...

One thing though, a Kingship is not just the Yamato, but a super carrier as well. Small ones carry 300+ fighters and bombers. Who knows how many bigger ones carry. And though many of those are in storage I see no reason to think they'd stay that way in a pitched battle. Also remember, we're going to be attacking and in SC carriers only really add to a fighter/bombers jump range. So when defending a system they're not as important. Basically what I'm saying is that there could be static fighter bases adding to an already large number of enemy spacecraft, especially on the frontier Vanduul systems where only one or two jumps is necessary to get into a fight.

So basically we might not have the extreme numbers advantage we expect- of course the SFW and probably other orgs/lone pilots will find out for us.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #6
~80% of our entire asset roster is fighters and as I said the plan involves baiting enemy fighters out. So not only do we have an overwhelming fighter advantage in the thousands we're also isolating the enemy fighters by baiting them away from capital ships. Factor in predicted instancing and we are constantly reinforcing and overwhelming the fighters Vanduul Clans have. This however is one of our few advantages which is why we're being highly strategic since only ~10% of our forces are bombers or capital ships.(The other ~10% is logistical and utility ships btw.)

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #7
How many of that 80% are Auroras, Mustangs, Reliants, etc. Lesser fighters that will for the most part, if I'm not mistaken, fly CAP for our supply trains and retreat/resupply points. I'm not disagreeing with you, I totally think we'll have fighter superiority. And I just thought of something-the Vanduul are nomadic so maybe they wouldn't employ static bases and such. Something for the SFW to look for I guess. My point was that there could be more fighters than we expect right now, that's all. But you kind of already said that there'd be tons in the OP so whatever.

It's a good plan-pull the fighters away, send in the bombers. Glads and Harbs go for screens, Tali's go for carriers. Cap ships play the support role. I keep trying to think of problems, and I am, but they're all Murphy's Law stuff or game mechanics stuff. It's pretty standard actually, it's a lot like what actual air assaults on fleets looked like in WWII, minus the mistakes and issues(Murphy's Law stuff).

One more thing to consider, though it's not real important. I think the Vanduul have another carrier-smaller and less capable in combat relative to the Kingship but more focused on being a carrier. Not sure though.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #8
How many of that 80% are Auroras, Mustangs, Reliants, etc. Lesser fighters that will for the most part, if I'm not mistaken, fly CAP for our supply trains and retreat/resupply points. I'm not disagreeing with you, I totally think we'll have fighter superiority. And I just thought of something-the Vanduul are nomadic so maybe they wouldn't employ static bases and such. Something for the SFW to look for I guess. My point was that there could be more fighters than we expect right now, that's all. But you kind of already said that there'd be tons in the OP so whatever.

It's a good plan-pull the fighters away, send in the bombers. Glads and Harbs go for screens, Tali's go for carriers. Cap ships play the support role. I keep trying to think of problems, and I am, but they're all Murphy's Law stuff or game mechanics stuff. It's pretty standard actually, it's a lot like what actual air assaults on fleets looked like in WWII, minus the mistakes and issues(Murphy's Law stuff).

One more thing, though it's not real important. I think the Vanduul have another carrier-smaller and less capable in combat relative to the Kingship but more focused on being a carrier. Not sure though.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #9
Supplies in transit would likely be escorted by 5-10% of the fighters depending on ships in transit and Vanduul behavioral data the SFW collects,but when they reach the actual fleet they are not needed as the capital ships who are in reserve until Wave 4 are guarding them. The moment in between when Wave 4 launches is when those fighters are needed to protect the logistical lines so they would be told to hold the position instead of going back to let's say Vega for an example to escort supply ships.

As for static bases they actually do have them. https://operationpitchfork.com/forums/index.php?topic=1820.0 the 9th image down is a planetary supply base

The smaller carrier your thinking of is the Driller Harvester Carrier. https://i.ytimg.com/vi/xfj6Avr835Q/maxresdefault.jpg (There is a Redeemer on the first flight deck for scale.) It has turrets only on the top of the ship easy to avoid and 3 flight decks. 1 of these flight decks are thought to only house Harvesters due to their size and a visual example shown at one point. Additionally with the flight deck size housing Void Bombers on a mining carrier makes very little sense as Harvesters are quite large. The second and third flight decks on top however are smaller and are expected to house a contingent of fighters such as Blades,Scythes, and Glaives. The count is undetermined,but predicted to be 50-100.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #10
What does the Bengal hold? Cuz 50-100 is larger than the Pegasus and it sounds like it could do pretty well even against a Bengal with that number of fighters- remove the harvesters and it's even better. Wonder if they would do that or if it's locked into having a certain complement.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #11
Now that you mention it that is likely it's count without Harvesters,because the Bengal Carrier holds 100 fighters. I'd also assume it is definitely less than 100 and closer to 50 in the Driller as it is smaller than the Bengal. So with Harvesters it might be something like 20-30 fighters. By chance do you know how many the Pegasus carries since you said 50-100 is larger than a Pegasus?

Additionally I would assume the Driller will always have Harvesters due to it's name and the obvious fact that Vanduul are nomads indicating they need resources more than war assets when they have screening ships too.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #12
Last time they mentioned the Pegasus they said it could hold 30 fighters. Obviously that might have changed though.  They said the Pegasus is more of a strike carrier than a fleet carrier. It's basically a transport for back-line raids and such.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #13
Last time they mentioned the Pegasus they said it could hold 30 fighters. Obviously that might have changed though.  They said the Pegasus is more of a strike carrier than a fleet carrier. It's basically a transport for back-line raids and such.

This makes very little sense to me,so it must have changed or the Pegasus is a waste of resources. I'll explain.

The Bengal has 2 flight decks and supposedly carries 100 fighters.

The Bengal's rear alone has the same number of STS turrets of the entire Pegasus.(6)

 The Pegasus has 4 flight decks and carries 30? To be fair 1 of those carries at least 2 Retaliators like in it's original model.

That leaves the other 3. The center dual deck of those can easily carry 30.


The fourth is...odd though. Above it are torpedo launchers and strange rectangular opening in between them,possibly a missing window for the torpedo crew,but that still leaves the hangar below which we know opens up,because of the greybox and green colors.

The Bengal at a mere glance has almost 3 times the firepower including it's underbelly quad cannon super death turret and supposedly double the fighter capacity while being similar in size?


By this comparison the Pegasus is just a disappointing waste of resources for Orgs to more easily capture if it's true. It must house more fighters than that or have some other special function. To be fair again it's not useless,but it appears extremely underwhelming for it's size.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #14
"The Pegasus-class is the Empire's premiere small carrier, capable of carrying a thirty-craft strike force deep behind enemy lines if necessary."
That's from the comm-link article introducing the Pegasus. LInk:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/14393-Introducing-The-Pegasus-Escort-Carrier

I know what you mean though, that was my first thought forever ago when I read that tiny introduction to it. I also think the Bengal's complement is ridiculously low. An Essex class carrier could carry 100 fighters at 250 meters long with fighters roughly 10 meters long. SC's fighters are about double that at 20-25 meters in length and the Bengal is 4 times as long as an Essex, plus it's in space which means you've got height and width that you can expand. The Bengal should seriously be able to hold several hundred spacecraft. Either you're right and the info is outdated or CIG is going for them being UP(under powered). Then again CIG isn't designing these ships with maximum loadout in mind. Carrier aircraft have always been designed with limited space in mind, hence the folding wings many have. CIG obviously doesn't care about that.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #15
The thing is they do,but in an odd way. Vanduul fighters wings fold straight up like an F-18 hornet,but in SC the Hornet fighter and many other human ships have F-14 or Tornado style folding wings that are merely "tucked in" as opposed to straight up. It decrease it's storage size,just not as efficiently as they could.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #16
never actually noticed that. Ok I was wrong about. CIG is still weird about hanger complements. Just look at the Idris hanger in the Morrow Tour. So much space is wasted, at least it seems like it is. Perhaps it's not and if it isn't then I wish CIG would explain that cuz it really does seem like they waste a lot of space sometimes.

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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #17
never actually noticed that. Ok I was wrong about. CIG is still weird about hanger complements. Just look at the Idris hanger in the Morrow Tour. So much space is wasted, at least it seems like it is. Perhaps it's not and if it isn't then I wish CIG would explain that cuz it really does seem like they waste a lot of space sometimes.

According to CIG if it fits it sits so you could potentially house more fighters at the risk of them bumping into each other exiting their respective carriers and exploding. Dragonflies are a perfect example as the smallest ship you could probably fit 100 in an Idris without exaggerating at all.
  • Last Edit: June 27, 2016, 12:13:52 AM by Jack Knife

Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #18
Sure, we could have a hundred Dragonflies. I just don't see that being effective in certain engagements. Quantity does not instantly confer quality; a ton of shit is still a ton of shit if what you need is a gallon of gas.
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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #19
Sure, we could have a hundred Dragonflies. I just don't see that being effective in certain engagements. Quantity does not instantly confer quality; a ton of shit is still a ton of shit if what you need is a gallon of gas.

I wasn't being serious about loading dragonflies into an Idris it was merely to illustrate the "if it fits it sits" point. Though I would be absolutely terrified if somewhere in the verse someone did that and deployed them all.

But back to the point of that. With our limited capital ship capacity which are small screen ships to begin with we clearly have a logistical nightmare trying to resupply ships and in particular bombers from them with the bulk of our fleet being ~80% fighters to begin with. The only solutions I can see is reliance on the capture of larger ships by participating Orgs or the miracle of manual reloading via EVA being put in the game. Seriously whomever is in charge of Logistics has a big problem right now and few solutions.

Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #20
Wait you don't know what the Polaris even is, if it follows Corvette logic it will be more of an anti-fighter and medium vessel counter.

But a good point to this plan is that Chris recently stated server architecture and new servers may increase our caps to 1000 players per instance. I'm more than willing to drop the 890j and sit in my Gladiator for this kind of plan; However, one issue with the Yamato vs Kingship is that shields can recharge on the kingships and again when the Yamato's group was struck they had no air cover to deal with. Honestly if we go all in with fighters and such in the first wave that could similarly remove all of our air cover from our later groups.

If shields recharge between these waves and we have no escort fighters etc to deal with the Vanduul fighter squadrons AND their capital ships responding fire, we might bork ourselves. In the end I am betting feints to draw the fighters etc away and into anti-fighter platforms, possibly the Polaris because... Come on every corvette ever has been a screening vessel lol, then going into an attack like what you state here.

It has to be such a consistent attack that we can lose fighters etc to the attrition of the capital ship fire which I am assuming will be decently accurate vs the Yamato's group, and whatever fighters they didn't launch/we didn't clear.
  • Last Edit: September 01, 2016, 07:36:45 AM by Valaska

Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #21
I wasn't being serious about loading dragonflies into an Idris it was merely to illustrate the "if it fits it sits" point. Though I would be absolutely terrified if somewhere in the verse someone did that and deployed them all.

Fair, and I would be terrified too. It sounds like something Test would do, though.

Quote
But back to the point of that. With our limited capital ship capacity which are small screen ships to begin with we clearly have a logistical nightmare trying to resupply ships and in particular bombers from them with the bulk of our fleet being ~80% fighters to begin with. The only solutions I can see is reliance on the capture of larger ships by participating Orgs or the miracle of manual reloading via EVA being put in the game. Seriously whomever is in charge of Logistics has a big problem right now and few solutions.

I think there was a discussion of a future Crucible variant that can rearm ships. That would only alleviate our logistical concerns, though. We currently have 20 Crucibles (one of them is mine) and 241 Starfarers (no distinction between regular and Gemini). We can set up a decent Forward Area Refuel and Rearm Point (FARRP) with those, but we really might need to set up planetside FARRPs in order to have a hope of supplying the Pitchfork Armada.

I can probably run logistics, and my Master's thesis was on logistics, but.....it's a daunting job, and one with far too many unknowns at this point.
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Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #22
Fair, and I would be terrified too. It sounds like something Test would do, though.

I think there was a discussion of a future Crucible variant that can rearm ships. That would only alleviate our logistical concerns, though. We currently have 20 Crucibles (one of them is mine) and 241 Starfarers (no distinction between regular and Gemini). We can set up a decent Forward Area Refuel and Rearm Point (FARRP) with those, but we really might need to set up planetside FARRPs in order to have a hope of supplying the Pitchfork Armada.

I can probably run logistics, and my Master's thesis was on logistics, but.....it's a daunting job, and one with far too many unknowns at this point.
That is one of my concerns atm aswell since we don't have a concrete way of resupplying the OPPF Armada once we exit Oberon which is where we're actually using supplies. I also recall somewhere that we actually do have an opening for a Logistics Head aswell due to absences. I'd inquire with official staff members if your keen on going for that role.

Re: The Yamato Kingship Tactical Plan
Reply #23
I just want to know whether or not disabling a ship's engines in atmosphere will cause it to hurtle inexorably toward the ground and certain death for 7,500 aliens?