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Topic: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term] (Read 4277 times) previous topic - next topic

Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]


Some of us have been playing with this idea for a while to establish a base on Orion after its liberation and now that we know this:

Quote
If a player group manages to establish a presence in a system outside of UEE space for long enough after awhile the AI will take notice. The UEE will start sending ships out to the system and over time start building infrastructure and expanding UEE presence in the system. In short they're working on a win condition for us! Long term this is a huge boon for the player base in general as it gives us all the opportunity to directly influence where, and in what direction, UEE space expands.

Lyt, paraphrasing Chris Roberts


We now know that CIG is at least planning to allow for long term player occupations to be recognized by the AI resulting in infrastructure being in some fashion developed, it becomes time to start planning for this idea and thus I am now proposing to establish the "Guardians of Orion".

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/ORIONGUARD/

Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion intends to be a long term effort to secure the Orions System for huminaty. This org is currently a work in progress. The current structural idea is to establish a network of players who are interested in both participating in Operation Pitchfork and keeping Orion Safe in the long term. In the spirit of Operation Pitchfork this Network will be as egalitarian as possible for its members, we take action based on shared deliberations and on voluntary basis.

Why a new org? Well Operation Pitchfork is intended to be a single operation, it is not a long term commitment after said operation. This initiative is probably far longer term deal and thus it is a separate choice to be involved in the long term.

How and what we should do to reach this goal is still up for discussion, if you are interested in helping out feel free to discuss or join up.

FAQ:
1.
Q: Is this initiative separate from Operation Pitchfork?

A: Yes and no, it is separate in that it is intended to be much more long term in its planning and execution, but its members arguably should be in Operation Pitchfork itself and this is not necessarily becoming a subdivision or something like it during the operation. Basically it is Operation Pitchfork for those that want to stick around after the main Operation

2.
Q: Is this initiative purely a combat mission?

A: Probably not, keeping Orion safe will surely involve combat missions. However to let the AI know our presence will probably also require other more economical activities such as trade, mining, etc.

3.
Q: Orion takes (too) many jumps to reach

A: Well that seems currently true when looking at the starmaps, but truth to be told we don't really know if those maps are up to date and even if they are it will really depend on the situation 'on the ground' so to speak on how easy it is to reach and maintain a presence. Maybe it will fail, but it will certainly fail if you do not try.

With regards,

Marcus
  • Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 08:12:14 PM by Marcus ImpaleMan

Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #1
regarding peopel who will participate in that effort, we may need some idea of how to keep everyone busy in Orion, you will agree that you don't want to wait in there and doing nothing. instead we could make a list of thing people may do in there .

here some exemple feel free to add more:
- exploring
- mining
- bacon hunting
- salvage
- SAR and repair of ship
- refuel ship
etc


harder part will be to keep people in there continuously ( will mostly depent if chris want use to be there 24h/24 or if systeme can be empty for a short period withouth reseting whole systeme to make uee notice use.

  • Andy_H
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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #2
Don't forget trade. All that developing infrastructure has to come from somewhere, and most likely materials and equipment will have to take the Nul route in and out. Even if we suppress Tiber, it will probably be too hot in the long term as a supply line.

Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #3
Nul doesn't go directly into Orion, either, though. My guess is that the UEE will not be able to establish a presence with non-adjacent systems. Or maybe they will, and will just require escort. Either way, the safest bet is to also maintain presence in other systems leading to Orion. So we can maintain a presence in Tiber and Orion, or in Caliban, and Orion (and Nul?). I'd say there's probably a lot more to do in Tiber. It's a salvage paradise, after all. More dangerous, but without the X factor of Nul.

I'll join in and help maintain presence until the UEE has established itself in Orion. And I'll maintain presence in whatever the most dangerous system is (as security), too. I'm willing to bet my entire clan (Clan Wolf) would be willing to do the same. But I'm going to wait on an official confirmation for that.
  • Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 01:11:15 PM by Knightcrawler

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #4
I think there would be a lot of opportunity to be had rebuilding Orion,as others have said materials/supplys have to be shipped in escorts, fuel, exploring Orion itself.

I Can't wait ;D

  • Shank
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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #5
I've been in from the start.

:)

Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #6

harder part will be to keep people in there continuously ( will mostly depent if chris want use to be there 24h/24 or if systeme can be empty for a short period withouth reseting whole systeme to make uee notice use.


I think there would be a lot of opportunity to be had rebuilding Orion,as others have said materials/supplys have to be shipped in escorts, fuel, exploring Orion itself.

I Can't wait ;D


Indeed, what we might have potentially working for us though is that Orion/Armitage is supposed to have a landing zone  https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/engineering/12992-Armitage-Concept-Art or at least it was originally planned to have a landing zone. That actually also makes it interesting to include this in advance of the main operation to see if it can be potentially used as a base of operations for the operation and set up a supply depot and logistical lines.


regarding peopel who will participate in that effort, we may need some idea of how to keep everyone busy in Orion, you will agree that you don't want to wait in there and doing nothing. instead we could make a list of thing people may do in there .

here some exemple feel free to add more:
- exploring
- mining
- bacon hunting
- salvage
- SAR and repair of ship
- refuel ship
etc


Don't forget trade. All that developing infrastructure has to come from somewhere, and most likely materials and equipment will have to take the Nul route in and out. Even if we suppress Tiber, it will probably be too hot in the long term as a supply line.


That is also the important factor, if Orion cannot be made economically viable, then it might be doomed from the start. I hope it will provide a good place for mining and salvage, that could make orgs specializing in that interested and from that snowballing into trade and other services to support that and thus create a growing economy.


Nul doesn't go directly into Orion, either, though. My guess is that the UEE will not be able to establish a presence with non-adjacent systems. Or maybe they will, and will just require escort. Either way, the safest bet is to also maintain presence in other systems leading to Orion. So we can maintain a presence in Tiber and Orion, or in Caliban, and Orion (and Nul?). I'd say there's probably a lot more to do in Tiber. It's a salvage paradise, after all. More dangerous, but without the X factor of Nul.

I'll join in and help maintain presence until the UEE has established itself in Orion. And I'll maintain presence in whatever the most dangerous system is (as security), too. I'm willing to bet my entire clan (Clan Wolf) would be willing to do the same. But I'm going to wait on an official confirmation for that.


Good of you to join and valid considerations! :) It is something we will have to explore and find out when the PU goes live, I will put it on the list of priorities. I hope that CIG will put up a preliminary starmap soon, so that we will get an update on possible routes.


I've been in from the start.

:)


That will be a case then of first in last out ;)

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #7
Hey Guys,

here is the logo. I choose a sword with wings and the orion stars (also OPPF relation) with another symbol of space related patch. the orionĀ“s shining lights are red and blue.

We dont need a shield to have the Guardians feel...a sword will defend and will avange.. I hope you all like it.

Regards
Crow

  • Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 07:34:40 PM by Kon Ellin

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #8
I don't even need to read all this to say that IAV is behind this concept 100% of the way. It's what we concepted our organisation around and I'm very happy to see that quote.

To go into some details about what kind of activities we've been discussing. I'll keep it brief for now but more than happy to expand on concepts.

Short term goals :
Limited exploration
Defensive strength and response time testing
Back into Armitage landing site in a limited capacity
Reconnaissance orientated time period
General CAP activities.

Medium term goals:
Sector based exploration
Identification of industrial and economic opportunities
Testing of trade lanes
Reconnaissance led strikes on identified threat areas
Strike orientated time period

Long term goals:
Initiative for global trade growth on Orion
Political pressure on the UEE for either support or re-integration if desired by those involved
Full sector exploration
Full exploitation of sector resources and opportunities
Strikes further into Vanduul territory from within Orion system
Clearing up any remaining pockets of resistance
Economic development focused time period.


Within the scope of the game, considering the above quote, I think all these kinds of things will be feasible. The Vanduul will be a tough nut to crack but I think through concentrated effort we can accomplish it.

Pitchfork, has been an incredible motivator for people to strike out against a common foe. I hope that with initiatives like this, and organisations like my own, we can carry that passion forward into the PU fully.

For anyone who's interested in fighting the Vanduul as a primary goal in the PU, or just reading up on my Organisation, check out our org thread here https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/IAV.

Great stuff Marcus, should be a bright future for Humans in SC.
  • Last Edit: November 05, 2014, 10:29:02 PM by MausGMR

Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #9
Yes I agree with MausGMR this does fit nicely with our current plan at IAV.

We have already begun assembling the Intelligence gathering/exploration wing. It is called the IAV Pathfinders Corps.
Right now, the PathFinders have the following ships at their disposal:

325A x 2, Freelancer DUR x 2, Constellation Andromeda x 1, Redeemer x 1,  Freelancer MAX x1, 315P x1, Avenger x 1, Aurora LN x 1, Cutlass x 2, Freelancer MIS x 1, F7C-M Super Hornet x 1 , Origin 350r x 1 , Gladiator Bomber x 1, Retaliator x 1.

As the Officer in charge of the "IAV PathFinders Corps" I invite anyone who is interested in exploration and intelligence gathering to give us a look.

I am fairly certain we will be working with operation pitchfork often.

  • Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 08:41:29 PM by [IAV]Zathrus

Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #10
Hi MausGMR and Zathrus :)

Welcome to our little initiative, your goals and means look very good. We will try to build up a broad alliance of all sorts of orgs to remain in Orion and if you want to be part of that you are very welcome!

With regards,

Marcus

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #11
I'm loving the concept. In my opinion I also find the handle Orion Guard a better name and title than the Guardians of Orion. It reminds me of Guardians of the Galaxy or a medieval fantasy style name too much.

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #12
I'm already in Orion on the RSI site, but I should pop here and say hi.

After OPPF, I plan on running a True Neutral hospital around Orion. Hopefully this'll provide a spawn area/save a lot of lives.

It's true neutral, being I'll not be part of UEE, and we'll heal all, be it pirates, traders, or UEE militia.

I'll definitely be sticking around Orion long-term until the UEE gets off their arses, or some sort of AI presence is established. I'd rather not take part in OPPF only to lose it again lol

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #13
I will love to be occupied by the Orion duty. Excited :)

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #14
My Endeavor Hope, "The Kennel" will stay stationed either in Orion or nearby systems in order to support future missions and or brave pirates in the region lol

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #15
Honestly pirating Vanduul will likely be highly profitable and risky. Anything you capture from Vanduul knives to ships(People do it in Arena Commander already.) would easily sell as a rare luxury on whatever I perceive to be the open market in SC. For example just look at how expensive Scythes were post sale.

I can easily see Marines from OPPF walking out of ships with a handful of Vanduul knives and making a small fortune.

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #16
I have stated this in other posts but I will say it here again... In order to take Orion you need to take another system as there are very few jump points into the system. The easiest being from a free system Oberon into Virgil, Tiber, and then Orion.... I would suggest taking one of those systems... the most economical starting point would be Virgil as it was a luxury destination and largescale farming planet now owned by the vanduul. Tiber is to heavily guarded but we could quantum jump through it fuel allowing (a factor we still don't know yet).

In world war 2 against the Japanese the americans used a similar battle tactic invading every other island effectively cutting off the supply chain to the Japanese on every second island starving them out to surrender.

If the strategic potential works like we are hoping it will... Take the lighter defended virgil and orion leaving tiber in a strangle hold on both sides.... Run raids on both sides like a pincer in time we could in theory take all 3 systems.... Rather than just a blind run on one.

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #17
This has been discussed a dozen times. Including the historical strategy you mentioned. Your probably new here,but this thread is for AFTER the operation completes,should it succeed.

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #18
This has been discussed a dozen times. Including the historical strategy you mentioned. Your probably new here,but this thread is for AFTER the operation completes,should it succeed.

He's right though. If you want to "hold" Orion and allow the AI to get a presence in the system you have to do the same thing to another system first so as to allow easy access to Orion. For OPPF it might be fine to just blast our way through but if you want to actually get the AI to develop the system you have to keep a long-term  and powerful presence in the system as we know. It'll be very hard to do that if players have to keep going through enemy territory to get to Orion.

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #19
Again that has been discussed and is why we're not going through the Banu backdoor to Orion for a full invasion. The current plan of going through Virgil or Tiber is commonly debated in order to allow a UEE prescence. In addition to this the systems we do liberate are being occupied for the 2-3 day window the operation is predicted to take place in as CIG is fully aware of and supports OPPF this will allow them to make in game excuses to have the UEE reoccupy whatever route we take.

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #20
While we appreciate your input as all thoughts and suggestions are valued here in OPPF, I would ask that you please stay on topic of what the post is about. As has been a couple of times these points you have brought up have been and are still being actively discussed in other threads. This thread is meant for discussion on Guardians of Orion which is a post OPPF operation for after a successful assault on the Vanduul. If you wish to discuss further ideas, suggestions, and plans on what would be required to first even take Orion before we can attempt to hold it please refer to one of the following threads; one of which mike you have already posted in, as you mentioned.

https://operationpitchfork.com/forums/index.php?topic=1643.0
https://operationpitchfork.com/forums/index.php?topic=1675.0

There are also multiple Katamari threads if you wish to discuss more tactical matters instead of just strategic discussion.
https://operationpitchfork.com/forums/index.php?board=10.0

  • Jatzi
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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #21
While we appreciate your input as all thoughts and suggestions are valued here in OPPF, I would ask that you please stay on topic of what the post is about. As has been a couple of times these points you have brought up have been and are still being actively discussed in other threads. This thread is meant for discussion on Guardians of Orion which is a post OPPF operation for after a successful assault on the Vanduul. If you wish to discuss further ideas, suggestions, and plans on what would be required to first even take Orion before we can attempt to hold it please refer to one of the following threads; one of which mike you have already posted in, as you mentioned.

https://operationpitchfork.com/forums/index.php?topic=1643.0
https://operationpitchfork.com/forums/index.php?topic=1675.0

There are also multiple Katamari threads if you wish to discuss more tactical matters instead of just strategic discussion.
https://operationpitchfork.com/forums/index.php?board=10.0

I was talking about after OPPF, obivously.

Again that has been discussed and is why we're not going through the Banu backdoor to Orion for a full invasion. The current plan of going through Virgil or Tiber is commonly debated in order to allow a UEE prescence. In addition to this the systems we do liberate are being occupied for the 2-3 day window the operation is predicted to take place in as CIG is fully aware of and supports OPPF this will allow them to make in game excuses to have the UEE reoccupy whatever route we take.
Ok. If CIG does allow that to happen then my concerns are pointless. But what if CIG doesn't do that? Or they allow the UEE AI to start to make a little presence in the systems leading to Orion, and in Orion itself, but then have the Vanduul come back in? I'm talking about in any system we liberate. What if CIG uses OPPF as the spark for the Sacking of Earth? OPPF, combined with the AI war against them, causes the Vanduul to get serious and they launch a major offensive to retake Orion or Tiber or Vigil or whatever. Then they use that as a diversion to make Earth easier to get to, but that's not what I'm talking about. How would we deal with a couple of Kingships and their respective fleets popping into Orion a month after OPPF? Granted, defending a system is a lot easier than taking it but The Guardians of Orion are going to be a lot smaller than OPPF. Or what if they retake Tiber and surround us? This is all hypothetical of course and we don't really need to worry about any of this now but I do think a major Vanduul counter-offensive months after OPPF preempting or following the Sacking of Earth is possible and its this orgs problem so we should be aware of it. Unless I'm totally off-base here.

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #22
I was talking about after OPPF, obivously.
Ok. If CIG does allow that to happen then my concerns are pointless. But what if CIG doesn't do that? Or they allow the UEE AI to start to make a little presence in the systems leading to Orion, and in Orion itself, but then have the Vanduul come back in? I'm talking about in any system we liberate. What if CIG uses OPPF as the spark for the Sacking of Earth? OPPF, combined with the AI war against them, causes the Vanduul to get serious and they launch a major offensive to retake Orion or Tiber or Vigil or whatever. Then they use that as a diversion to make Earth easier to get to, but that's not what I'm talking about. How would we deal with a couple of Kingships and their respective fleets popping into Orion a month after OPPF? Granted, defending a system is a lot easier than taking it but The Guardians of Orion are going to be a lot smaller than OPPF. Or what if they retake Tiber and surround us? This is all hypothetical of course and we don't really need to worry about any of this now but I do think a major Vanduul counter-offensive months after OPPF preempting or following the Sacking of Earth is possible and its this orgs problem so we should be aware of it. Unless I'm totally off-base here.

Many moons ago in a time I don't remember in the first year,there was a statement from CIG devs somewhere that the timeframe for the Sacking of Rome I mean *cough* Earth was dependent on the completion of Squadron 42. The number of people who complete it would impact the time of the sacking in some undisclosed way and it's not even clear how in what ending either when you complete Squadron 42.

So OPPF should not effect that unless we became a factor since that statement was in the first year. Quite frankly though if we succeed and CIG simply takes it back within a year it is a massive fuck you to thousands upon thousands of his loyal backers so it is very unlikely to happen. If we fail then it plays the opposite way and Vanduul don't take the UEE seriously even as a sign of weakness,because they've smashed thousands of UEE Navy ships in all those systems anyway and we become legendary martyrs of vengeance for the game's lore like the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo. There is actually a genuine possibility of UEE AI following us into the warzone though the magical hands of CIG. I'd cry if Chris Roberts came with us in a Bengal(Retribution is for SQ 42 only by Wing Commander logic.) with CIG staff in support ships.

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #23
Many moons ago in a time I don't remember in the first year,there was a statement from CIG devs somewhere that the timeframe for the Sacking of Rome I mean *cough* Earth was dependent on the completion of Squadron 42. The number of people who complete it would impact the time of the sacking in some undisclosed way and it's not even clear how in what ending either when you complete Squadron 42.

So OPPF should not effect that unless we became a factor since that statement was in the first year. Quite frankly though if we succeed and CIG simply takes it back within a year it is a massive fuck you to thousands upon thousands of his loyal backers so it is very unlikely to happen. If we fail then it plays the opposite way and Vanduul don't take the UEE seriously even as a sign of weakness,because they've smashed thousands of UEE Navy ships in all those systems anyway and we become legendary martyrs of vengeance for the game's lore like the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo. There is actually a genuine possibility of UEE AI following us into the warzone though the magical hands of CIG. I'd cry if Chris Roberts came with us in a Bengal(Retribution is for SQ 42 only by Wing Commander logic.) with CIG staff in support ships.
I wasn't talking about the timeline of the Sacking of Earth, I was talking about the possibly lore set-up to the event. Obviously OPPF has become big enough that CIG is going to put it in the lore; if we're successful I actually hope CIG incorporates the operation into the Sacking of Earth event. I just think it's a cool story: against the backdrop of the UEE gearing up for all-out war with the Vanduul thousands of private citizens decide to attempt to retake Orion. The UEEN sees this and decides to assist(Chris Roberts in that sweet Bengal). The operation is a success which angers the Vanduul so they decide to group up(perhaps the event causes them to reevaluate Humanity as an actual threat) and counter-attack. And bam, Earth is sacked.
I think CIG making the Vanduul not at least try to take back Orion or Tiber or whatever would be kind of a let down. I don't think it fits the lore for the Vanduul to not mount a counter-offensive after OPPF, even if it's not coordinated. I agree that having the Vanduul retake Orion would be awful and very upsetting, that wasn't what I meant. Say your right and the UEEN supports OPPF, a safe assumption, and the AI successfully resettle the systems we go through to get to Orion, and Orion itself. The Vanduul counter-attack causing Orion to devolve into a huge warzone with the Vanduul fighting the AI UEEN and the Guardians of Orion. I think that's pretty cool.
I don't have a point anymore so I'm just gonna shut up. This is a cool idea and I'll definitely help out years from now when it actually happens.

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Re: Operation Pitchfork: Guardians of Orion [initiative to secure Orion long term]
Reply #24
I wouldn't call the idea of UEE Fleet support to be a safe bet. As it stands we aren't even looking at UEE necessarily moving any of their fleet in if the OP is successful, we are geared more towards Orion being converted to a neutral zone by civilian NPCs looking to expand, colonize, trade etc... Now MAYBE we can get the UEE to push in to one of the nearby jump systems such as Tiber MAYBE, but not something we should really count on in the plans with how things currently stand. Holding the systems is going to strongly rely on whatever forces we have left after the main OP and it is doubtful too that the Vanduul will be our only concerns at that point.

On the note of the lore, that is a whole other thing to get into. Could probably start up it's own thread about different ways to involve both OPPF and GoO into the lore further. Suffice to say it would be cool to be incorporated deeper into the lore like that, but there are concerns to address with that thought as well mainly in regards to how the majority of the player base still see us.