The Next Great Starship Contest November 30, 2013, 09:10:30 pm Ladies, gentlemen, Space Vikings,We need to get an Operation Pitchfork team into the Next Great Starship contest! We need to represent the Bacon Slaying bad-asses that have banded together into this great community. I have no 3d rendering or animation skills (that I know off), but I have actually worked on fighter aircraft and real life weapon systems, so I have been thinking about some stuff.The other night I had a dream about a sweet space ship that was laying communication buoys in space. I elaborated on this idea, and I think I've come up with a very useful ship for our OPPF needs.The ship itself would need to be large enough to contain four or so medium-sized buoys, each about the size of a Merlin. The ship would have to have simple repair facilities, for repairing said buoys. Also on board is an extensive tracking package so that they buoys can be relocated and recovered or repaired after they have been laid down. It should be a 3-4 person ship. One pilot, one sensor operator, and two techs would probably be the best balance. Because of this, the ship itself would have very limited room for weapons. No missiles, since the ammo complement would take up so much room, but maybe a single turret or possibly two.Strengths:Surveying - This is to be able to be able to find the probes again.Communication - They have to stay in contact with all of the different probes in a system so they can keep up on repairs or know if some one is tampering with one.Duration - They have to be out in the field a lot, maintaining and dropping off new buoys as is needed.Durability - The ships have to be able to hold up to some moderately strong impacts, in case of buoys shifting while working on them, or having to go into a dangerous area like a debris cloud to recover them.Weaknesses: Low speeds - It's not critical they get somewhere instantly, it's more important they get the job done right.Offensive Capability - It's not going to be leading the charge on anything more than the last call at the local bar. It's just got enough firepower to dissuade a single attacker from trying to get too close.Defensive Capability - Unless you refocus the electronic package to be more ECM, you've really only got simple countermeasures and your thick hall to protect you.Now the comm buoys themselves. Because we don't want to invalidate the purpose or even the very reason of the existence of a data runner, the communication networks built by these buoys are not going to be without some pretty significant flaws, security wise.Each buoy will be made up of about 5-10 quantum communication boxes. I want to think of a name for them later. Quantum entanglement allows the boxes to communicate with each other instantly at ANY distance. This allows for you to seed a system with buoys that can get a message from one end to the other almost instantly, and if you put one in one system, and one in another, you can bridge entire systems with rapid communication networks.Because they use quantum entanglement to communicate between each other, the crew laying them down have to actually pay attention to what they're doing. Quantum entangled boxes are always built in pairs, and they can only communicate with their twin. So if one breaks, the other one in the other buoy becomes useless if you can't repair it. So laying down the wrong buoys, or putting them together wrong, can lead to a useless network that is also very difficult to repair if you don't remember which buoy had which boxes in it. Also, people can detect them by their energy emissions (more on this), and hack into them to gain data as it's transferred to the outgoing quantum transmitter inside the buoy.But the benefits are that with more quantum comm boxes in a buoy, the more bandwidth it will have. Building up a high-capacity comm system can pay off in credits when people pay to have near instant communication with people in other systems, or within the same system.Physical Elements of the Quantum Comm Buoy:The length of a P-52 Merlin.Contains a power-plant, small thrusters, and a weak shield emitter.Communication gear is made up of 5 to 10 QC Boxes - Increasing or decreasing affects bandwidth.One set of QC Boxes make up the quantum transmitter - Only sends signals to one specific QC receiver.One set of QC Boxes make up the quantum receiver - Only receives signals from one specific QC transmitter. Communication Elements of QC Buoy:Can communicate between QC buoys instantly - But only between two specific QC buoys.QC Networks end with conventional transmitters on either end - They must transmit to a communication center where the signal is converted to traditional frequencies and transmitted for local broadcasts. Once the signal leaves the Quantum network, it is subject to traditional message interception.No Detectable Transmission - Because QC does not use conventional transmissions, it can not be easily detected.Built-in security to detect hacking - Reroute data stream to another QC if available, and transmit a distress call to the repair ship. This can be avoided by careful hackers. Last Edit: December 02, 2013, 01:34:09 pm by Benjamin the Rogue
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #1 – November 30, 2013, 09:11:25 pm Now I just need some people who can do 3D rendering, animation, and art design to help me make this happen!
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #2 – November 30, 2013, 11:28:33 pm Well I could do the modeling and maybe some art, but we'd need someone that knows how to do coding and texturing. Also the submission for the entry is a weapon not the ship. I suspect that if we got to that stage we would be given stats to work from like the concept artists get at the moment, though I of course may be wrong.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #3 – December 01, 2013, 02:42:23 am I can code, depends on the language. I believe the game is written in C++ so I'd have to learn that one. Still haven't gotten around to it yet.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #4 – December 01, 2013, 02:46:36 am Yeah, just found out about the weapon thing. Good thing I used to be a Weapon specialist on fighter aircraft!I shall return with new ideas! Preferably when it isn't so terribly late.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #5 – December 01, 2013, 06:46:41 am Sounds like a good idea. Ben if you need any physics for the wep. Check my "kuroi hana" thread https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/73273/That's just some general rabble on how one could actually build the weapon according to current knowledge, and since I'm not in any current team for the competition you should be able to use that partially or whole. Also I've not taken any approaches towards how it would look like. Since science behind it should be roughly similar in almost every entry, all you need to do is figure out how it would look like Hopefully that helps!Edit: some typos ^^ Last Edit: December 01, 2013, 06:48:18 am by SuojaKerroin
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #6 – December 01, 2013, 08:48:04 am It sounds pretty cool I know C++ but I'm rusty and need to learn the cryengine (good thing I've already downloaded it). I'm just trying to think of what the practical application of a ship like this might be besides specialized military operations. For example, why wouldn't a courier service just build a network of these across systems so all planets would have instantaneous communications? Based on what has been said and ships like the information runner I don't think instantaneous communication is going to be something that they're looking for in SC.I had thought of a dedicated miner but then they came out with the poll
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #7 – December 01, 2013, 01:17:52 pm It's not going to be secure communication, since the QC buoys can be hacked, or the transmission centers transmit the signal in a conventional broadcast which can also be intercepted and decrypted. This still leaves a role for the Info Runner, to run secure messages in a still timely fashion. And the bandwidth issue is still very prominent when dealing with a QC system. Even a maxed out QC buoy is going to be limited in the amount of comm traffic it can support.The buoys will need constant work, being repaired or replaced, or relocating probes that have been discovered by others and tempered with. It shouldn't be easy to maintain a very big network, and these ships will be required to properly care for them. If one QC buoy goes off line, it effects a total of three QC buoys, since it's tied to a specific transmitter and a specific receiver. So if it's destroyed, you have to start replacing the QC boxes out of the other two QC buoys to bring the system back up. And why the system is down, you're going to have people not able to communicate. So the QC system isn't perfect. It's a lot like how the telegraph lines were in the Wild West kind of days.Like I said, a lot of work. Then you'd have to get the useless QC boxes converted so they're entangled with each other, to replace the ones lost. The ship would be the only ship that has this equipment on board for QC box conversion. I'd have to look up the physics of quantum entanglement, and then extrapolate what tech capable of that would look like in the future.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #8 – December 01, 2013, 01:19:59 pm For a new weapon system, I was thinking a specialized missile, since I worked on them A LOT, or some sort of ship to ship guided bomb system. Kind of like a torpedo, but less fuel, more boom.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #9 – December 01, 2013, 02:42:38 pm Ah, but the rules of the competition are quite simple on the weapon:"Multi-Particle Wave Cannon (MPWC)The Multi-Particle Wave Cannon is a Gatling cannon which fires energy bolts from a miniaturized multi-particle accelerator ray. It fires a barrage of bosons at the target in the form of a wave of particles occupying the same quantum state. They collapse into particles on impact with energy shielding to cause significant damage, but are largely ineffective against solid armor. The MPWC is based on alien technology, and the Xi’an influence should be visible! Construction should reflect the high-science nature and multiple accelerator aspect of the weapon.Size: Available in size 1-5Hardpoints: Class 1 and 2Inspiration: the A-10 Warthog’s GAU-8/A Avenger"So that kind of rules out the missiles. Also that's rather tight fitting where you have to create the weapon itself.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #10 – December 01, 2013, 05:02:40 pm Lets see, a miniature particle accelerator powered GAU-8 with design influences from a race whose "style" appears to be a blend of organic curves and industrial lines.How's this?
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #11 – December 01, 2013, 06:21:43 pm Quote from: Benjamin the Rogue on December 01, 2013, 01:17:52 pmIt's not going to be secure communication, since the QC buoys can be hacked, or the transmission centers transmit the signal in a conventional broadcast which can also be intercepted and decrypted. This still leaves a role for the Info Runner, to run secure messages in a still timely fashion. And the bandwidth issue is still very prominent when dealing with a QC system. Even a maxed out QC buoy is going to be limited in the amount of comm traffic it can support.The buoys will need constant work, being repaired or replaced, or relocating probes that have been discovered by others and tempered with. It shouldn't be easy to maintain a very big network, and these ships will be required to properly care for them. If one QC buoy goes off line, it effects a total of three QC buoys, since it's tied to a specific transmitter and a specific receiver. So if it's destroyed, you have to start replacing the QC boxes out of the other two QC buoys to bring the system back up. And why the system is down, you're going to have people not able to communicate. So the QC system isn't perfect. It's a lot like how the telegraph lines were in the Wild West kind of days.Like I said, a lot of work. Then you'd have to get the useless QC boxes converted so they're entangled with each other, to replace the ones lost. The ship would be the only ship that has this equipment on board for QC box conversion. I'd have to look up the physics of quantum entanglement, and then extrapolate what tech capable of that would look like in the future.I totally understand the concept, but my question is still why wouldn't a courier group just put these in a building so they can't be tampered with? The communication is then sent instantly to the receiver in a room on another planet in another system... As for encryption you can encrypt the message prior to transmission and then send the clear text encrypted message. It's like translating English to Chinese, transmitting in Chinese, and then translating back to English on the other end so any data transmission can still be encrypted even if the transmission itself isn't secured.Also, what's the practical application within the PU for a system like this and how does it add to the player's experience/ make them money?
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #12 – December 02, 2013, 03:32:10 am Jaustin, I LOVE that concept, looks great.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #13 – December 02, 2013, 01:29:40 pm Wait, so the weapon system is only ONE specific weapon? Ok, thanks for the clarification. I only heard it second hand from members in Skjaldborg. We were having fun coming up with ideas. But that gun looks awesome. If you created an assemble behind it, you could add more barrels to the top as well, having a full circle of them while still having an attachment point.The QC buoyed system will be for people far from planets, like in deep space, and for people who want to communicate from one side of a system in a hurry. Still haven't worked out how to have them receive and transmit conventional signals without giving away their positions too much, or without some sort of dedicated transmitter/receiver that handles that sort of thing. I'm open to ideas.Also, I realized that QC comm buoys would only be one way if you only had one dedicated QC transmitter and receiver apiece. So you'd either need double the buoys for a network or you'd have to half your possible bandwidth by making them two-way. That'd be a player decision.The players could make money off of a network like this by charging people access to it. If you're exploring in deep space and you come across something important, or you need help in a hurry, you can pay to send a message over a QC network if one is near.If anyone else has any ship ideas, I'd also love to hear about them. I really want to see a OPPF team out there, even if it's not my ship or weapon or whatever idea. I just think having a dedicated comm ship would be really cool.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #14 – December 02, 2013, 05:51:59 pm I kinda like the idea of a massive colony ship. Maybe half again as large as a Bengal Class Carrier. They can be used as everything from cruise ships to mahoosive personnel and cargo transporters for establishing new colonies. Such a ship could be vital for carrying supplies to Armitage to rebuild the city after we liberate it.I'll be back with more details later but feel free to expand on this idea.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #15 – December 02, 2013, 06:13:33 pm Quote from: Jaustin89 on December 01, 2013, 05:02:40 pmLets see, a miniature particle accelerator powered GAU-8 with design influences from a race whose "style" appears to be a blend of organic curves and industrial lines.How's this?I've had a few more ideas about that, I'll have to share them later though, getting busy around the house right now.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #16 – December 04, 2013, 11:32:06 am So I saw ben's idea for the QC and I decided to make a quick model for it... and change it a bit. Its not great, but its something :/Heres the transmitters (processing unit included in the base)back viewfront viewNow comes the receivers. (processing unit included in the base)Front ViewBack ViewNow here is an Arm, it houses 5 hardpoints for the receivers and such. (Note arm length can and will differ)Front?Back?I didnt feel that the shaded render worked well, so I changed it to illustration for a second round.Front?Back?Heres the hub, it holds 8 hardpoints for Arms. it has a processing unit inside.Erm.... StuffI the shaded render was horrible, so I switched to illustration.Much better.And here is a hub assembled with 4 arms, 2 arms fully loaded with receivers, and the other 2 fully loaded with transmitters.Shaded renderIllustrated renderWell thats the fast model and renders I did. I might work on this more if I have the time and/or if ben asks. Also, I cant texture for my life.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #17 – December 13, 2013, 01:41:56 am Ok, I haven't forgotten about this, I've just been up to my neck in a lot of stuff lately, some of it medical, some of it legal, and a lot of it just being exhausted. Has anyone here seriously considered the idea of trying out for this? I mean, the worst thing that could happen is the OPPF team doesn't get selected to participate.Sorry that the text is hard to read in that.Top Left says: You have enough space here to include an onboard-targeting computer to control each barrel's alignment, optimizing aim using the target information supplied by the ships own main computer. This is purely optional, since it would increase both weight, price, and maintenance of a weapon system.Top Right says: A computer-controlled motor assembly should be present here at the rear of the barrels, to control the fine tuning of the individual barrel's aim. In concert with the front barrel stabilizer, this would allow minor changes to each barrel's aim.Bottom says: You'll want a front mounted barrel stablilizer for the barrels, even if the assembly does not spin. It won't look quiter like the stab on the M-61 shown because you'll want one that can dynamically alter each barrels' aim. Including the rear-mounted micro-motors, this will allow each barrel a certain degree of movement. You also have enough room between the barrels that you can include a targeting system sub-assembly, if you wanted to.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #18 – December 13, 2013, 01:55:19 am That's some good work, ssthehunter. The arms would be good for repairing minor stuff to the probes without having to pull them in. But for the QC buoy look, I was thinking more torpedo shaped, and very plain looking on the outside. Since quantum communication happens without needing a satellite dish or antenna to focus the signal, those wouldn't be needed on a buoy that is just communicating from one QC buoy to another. You would need more traditional gear for one that is broadcasting on an open conventional channel though. The plain torpedo look is so that they could be pulled into the side of the ship into a repair section that has an airlock. This allows crews to do more long-term work on a buoy than having to do EVA or more difficult work with arms.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #19 – December 13, 2013, 11:30:30 am Right, hmmm. First of all I've got absolutely no programming or any other artistic talents at all so this is all done with pencil and photoshop abilities that any 5yr old can do. Also while I do like the Ben's idea of command & communication ship, I'm still feeling that this game needs a stealth bomber. So without further ado, here's one more suggestion for the OPPF ship for the competition and for your consideration._______________________________________________________________________________Elicpse is strategic attack vessel build as a joint operation between Consolidated Outland and Aegis Dynamics. Latter pulled of from the project at the early stage leaving whole ship development in the hands of Consolidated Outland alone. Ship was produced for mere three years, after the UEE military decided to cancelall future orders of it and production was stopped.Almost every bomber pilot in UEE Navy became to loathe and fear the "one-way-ticket" as it was called, since it was often used deep behind enemy lines for guerrilla tactics and was almost always consideredas a suicide mission. Now that the war with Xi'an is over, the UEE Navy has decided to sell the remaining un-loved Eclipses for civilian use.________________________________That's the lore side of it, then facts.It's a long-range stealth "bomber" with passive radar suite for locating the targets and instead of torpedoes it has "flux-capacitors, big capable reactor and zestroyer railgun found on the Idris-m variant. It's slightly bigger than Freelancer, (since it's a stealth ship, small size ftw.) it's purpose build to attack enemy supply lines so it's meant to destroy freighters with relative ease, but cannot hold it's own for long. Also since it's only weapon is the railgun shooting anything small is not an option. This is meant to work like 21 seconds to build enough charge to fire once, then there's 92 seconds of power shortage, since capacitors have drawn every single electron from the reactor and there's no power to anything beside the life support. So no shields, no maneuvering thrusters, no engines, no navigation, no HUD, all you have is lifesupport and little counter that shows remaining time until power is back online. Also while building Railgun charge you can only use maneuvering thrusters on half of their power, to not draw too much power from the reactor. Ship has some armor, but since it's mostly "void armor" it's not very effective vs hard ammo.here's the specs sheet:And here's as good concept picture as I can produce with my ms_paint and pencilAny thoughts? Opinions? Other stuff?
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #20 – December 15, 2013, 06:50:46 pm That's interesting, and I like it, but no government would pay for a military weapon that completely disabled itself for more than two minutes with a single shot. No military would accept that bid. I can see the cool down for the weapon being long, but not complete and totally incapacitation of the entire ship.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #21 – December 16, 2013, 09:38:53 am Hmmm, you might be right. But the thing is, they promised to military to provide an operating version and never could meet the requirements no matter how much they tweaked the system, hence military considered it as an failed experiment and dropped the order. The way the corporate world works that would still have some ships made even when they never got to the full potential. And project took some time to get scrapped.for example: http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787But yeah, I overdid the reload time on purpose, so it would be easier to balance out, since it's always easier to justify making ship better than "nerfing" something too powerful. Also I think it might be amusing to have to judge when you can fire against just pew pewing stuff. Also since it's hugely oversize gun for this size of an ship it should by all rights eat huge amounts of power and only to be fired when first strike is too important to pass.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #22 – December 16, 2013, 09:59:30 am I like the concept but hate the cool down time. As a pilot, I'd accept limited maneuvering after firing for about 5-10 second at absolute most but nothing more than that.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #23 – December 17, 2013, 09:42:57 am Think of it this way; it's bomber so it's main objective is to fire one volley of devastating attacks and then head back to the base for rearming. If all you need is cooldown there is no need to return the base nor rearm the ship, so it's a huge advantage. Also I envision one shot from that railgun being as effective as Gladiators normal payload of torpedoes(1 to 3). If you have ability to shoot it and properly escape it will make normal bombers obsolete, this way it will have an advantage yes, but at the great risk to anyone who pilots it. That being said the disability time might still bee bit too much and we might need to downscale it.
Re: The Next Great Starship Contest Reply #24 – December 18, 2013, 12:05:12 am It's not an advantage if for two minutes your a glowing, blind, deaf, and immobile target on the battlefield. Not to mention alone. I imagine being that small and firing a big-ass gun, there's not really going to be anyway to hide the energy signature, or the heat effect.A really long cool-down time, yes, definitely. But not the complete and totally helplessness as a result of it. You might as well just have used your whole ship as a missile to deliver the shot.
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